Primate @ 11/3/2018 17:01

Also did the UK have talks with other trade orgs, nations etc to get contingency agreements in the works before they announced the exit, or was it more of a power play, or just pure impulse pandering that brought it through?

No. The government also, stupidly, signed article 50 saying that we were leaving before negotiations. A fucking stupid move that they only did to keep the brexiteers happy.

Darkus Black @ 11/3/2018 11:46

Primate @ 11/3/2018 16:58 The American left pulls out the racist thing when they can't come up with a cogent argument, too. Disappointed that darkus went to that tact on the first post. That's just lazy. Umm. That was a huge part of the brexit nonsense. People were openly being racist in the streets telling brown faced people that they need to go home. It actually happened.

Meh. Make a real argument . You can't use elitist bullying and insinuated racist shaming in the same post and expect to be called anything but lazy.

Darkus Black @ 11/3/2018 11:48

Primate @ 11/3/2018 17:01 Also did the UK have talks with other trade orgs, nations etc to get contingency agreements in the works before they announced the exit, or was it more of a power play, or just pure impulse pandering that brought it through? No. The government also, stupidly, signed article 50 saying that we were leaving before negotiations. A fucking stupid move that they only did to keep the brexiteers happy.

Yeah. They fucked the dog, then. That's what happens when politicians try to play at business. It doesn't sound like the UK is much different from the US in that regard.

vladykins @ 11/3/2018 11:12

Primate @ 11/3/2018 12:01 Also did the UK have talks with other trade orgs, nations etc to get contingency agreements in the works before they announced the exit, or was it more of a power play, or just pure impulse pandering that brought it through? Impulse pandering.

That's the worst case scenario.

Of course, we have a businessman playing at politics now. Which seems to be even worse.

Primate @ 11/3/2018 17:50

Darkus Black @ 11/3/2018 11:46 Primate @ 11/3/2018 16:58 The American left pulls out the racist thing when they can't come up with a cogent argument, too. Disappointed that darkus went to that tact on the first post. That's just lazy. Umm. That was a huge part of the brexit nonsense. People were openly being racist in the streets telling brown faced people that they need to go home. It actually happened. Meh. Make a real argument . You can't use elitist bullying and insinuated racist shaming in the same post and expect to be called anything but lazy.

It's hard to make an argument when the other side doesn't present any facts as to why they wanted to leave other than to make it more democratic.

This site also sucks on mobile. Move the thread to FFA please.

Primate @ 11/3/2018 17:51

If the UK is in such a position of military and rconomic strength, how come they couldn't strongarm the EU and enact change?

Each EU nation comes to an agreement as a group, one country strongarming stuff smell bad, like Russia bad.

Germany, France, Brussel etc seems to be calling the shots, the UK always wanted different things.

The Syria refugee crisis split EU apart a whole lot. Some countries took way too many and other countries took few or none at all.

Darkus Black @ 11/3/2018 11:18

There is a lot to cover there. Let's drill into it a bit at a time. What have the EU specifically done that means we need to worry about it? What specific legislation is a problem?

Is it not enough that they are pushing for a united states of Europe without providing any means of voting out the leadership? Needn't that be enough to explain why I'm opposed to it?

Specific legislation is not my main concern...it's the people who are making the legislation, and are going to be making the legislation in future. How do we hold them to account if they do something we don't like?

Primate @ 11/3/2018 11:51

If the UK is in such a position of military and rconomic strength, how come they couldn't strongarm the EU and enact change?

I'd say there hasn't been enough political will to do so. And now with us set to leave, we're no longer concerned with the conversation of reform. But I'd never considered what could have been achieved had we had a forceful government committed to trying to reform the EU. I'm skeptical Britain alone could force reform, it would have to involve the other big member states, especially Germany.

I made the point about our economic/military strength more to point out that I think we will be fine outside the EU

Darkus Black @ 11/3/2018 13:00

It's hard to make an argument when the other side doesn't present any facts as to why they wanted to leave other than to make it more democratic.

You say that like the EU being undemocratic is no big deal!

So what has the undemocratic monster done wrong so far?

And what is bad about a united states of Europe?

Darkus Black @ 11/3/2018 17:37

And what is bad about a united states of Europe?

It's not the United States of America

Igor @ 11/3/2018 22:55

Darkus Black @ 11/3/2018 17:37 And what is bad about a united states of Europe? It's not the United States of America

Thank god

Actually it would be preferable if it was aiming to be more like the USA.

At least they can actually elect their leaders!

You haven't answered the question. What have they done wrong other than not be elected?

You've yet to respond to the questions I posed to you.

Darkus, it's not about the individuals who happen to be in charge now, it's about the system itself. Why should we forgo our current system of government, in which we can elect our leaders, for one in which we can't?

The mistakes the EU leadership has made over the past few decades are:

- The single currency
- Free movement
- Common Agricultural Policy
- Accepting Greece into the EU
- Their complete failure during the migrant crisis
- Imposition of austerity on Greek people
- Their complete lack of respect for the desires of the people of the member states

You seem to be missing my point. Even if the current leadership of the EU had done nothing wrong at all, what assurances does that give us for the future? Who knows who will be running things 20, 30 years down the line? And again, I ask the question, how will we hold those people to account? There is no system in place to do so.