I won't spoil or hint at anything, but yes, this season is already going into books 4 and 5 (take place at the same time), in some storylines much more than others. The producers seem to becoming more and more willing to change material from the books and that is go

Vernon of 2015 @ 18/4/2014 20:35

I have a feeling that if the show sticks too close to the books once this season is over, the next 3 (or 4) seasons (GRRM said they should be able to get a lot of episodes out of the next two books as he is going to take a long time to release the next book) might be really meh. I haven't read the books, but I hear that things start to drag by book 4, mostly because 3 is so good. It's like he's needlessly stretching things out just because he's not sure how to properly conclude it. I feel like the whole White Walker thing is really tedious and should have gone somewhere by now.

Eh, I think they should be alright. It might not be as entertaining as this season will be, but they shouldn't be bad. Largely because they don't seem to be following GRRM's suggestion - they'll have pretty much caught up with the books by the end of next season, with some storylines being further ahead than others (Bran, Theon, and Daenerys will all be reaching some book 5 material in this season, it seems). I think Martin suggested they could turn books 4 and 5 into 3 or 4 seasons, which I guess they could, but yeah, those seasons would fucking suck. It is a good thing he is not running the show. I enjoy those books, but no. That would suck. They can condense it any take out some of the less cinematic parts and then just move on with the show if he still hasn't come out with another book. I really enjoy the books but I don't have a problem with them doing that.

Back to the show, I just hope that Oberyn Martell keeps getting more and more screen time. I'm expecting him to screw Loras Tyrell after their steamy glances last episode.

I know Cersei and Jaime have a fucked up relationship, and sure, she may have wanted it on some small level...but he raped her. I mean, she's saying no over and over again. It's just rape. I sure as hell was not expecting that at all. Weird change from the books, and it definitely does complicate Jaime's redemption arc. But seeing as he did try to murder a kid in the first episode, maybe it's best we recognize that even the "less evil guys" on this show are still pretty evil.

Dr. Derp @ 21/4/2014 12:47

If the directors deciced to have Jaime rape his sister in the middle of his redemption arc then continue the arc from there as if it never happened, its going to be pretty awful.

Definitely agree. I can stand for it to not be a straightforward "Jaime is gradually redeemed" arc because in real life people usually stumble and hit roadblocks on their path to improvement, but raping your sister is obviously not just a "roadblock," it's a pretty significantly terrible thing. Cersei is a terrible person but Jaime has really lost any moral high ground with her. I hope the creators don't try to whitewash this, because that is a very irresponsible thing to do and I am not being hyperbolic when I say it can possibly lead to actual people thinking rape is more acceptable and thus committing rape.

Zersch @ 21/4/2014 14:39

Legend @ 21/4/2014 15:01 Dr. Derp @ 21/4/2014 12:47 If the directors deciced to have Jaime rape his sister in the middle of his redemption arc then continue the arc from there as if it never happened, its going to be pretty awful. Definitely agree. I can stand for it to not be a straightforward "Jaime is gradually redeemed" arc because in real life people usually stumble and hit roadblocks on their path to improvement, but raping your sister is obviously not just a "roadblock," it's a pretty significantly terrible thing. Cersei is a terrible person but Jaime has really lost any moral high ground with her. I hope the creators don't try to whitewash this, because that is a very irresponsible thing to do and I am not being hyperbolic when I say it can possibly lead to actual people thinking rape is more acceptable and thus committing rape. Seems like hyperbole to me. Anything could potentially possibly lead to actual, dysfunctional idiots thinking and doing anything. I just think the scene sucked for plenty of other reasons without having to take the "won't someone think of the children/teens/mentally handicapped adults" stance.

It's not a "think of the children" stance, it's a "we live in a rape culture in which women are raped in massive numbers and often blamed for their own rape or have their rape dismissed as not an actual rape" stance. How are many fans going to react to this scene? Jaime is in the middle of a redemption arc in which we are apparently supposed to view him as still morally ambiguous, but relatively moral. Cersei is an awful human being and is a stereotypical ice queen. I would imagine most message boards are full of "she deserved it" comments. I doubt the producers intend that, but its surely happening. But they apparently also did intend to not depict a rape, which they did. She did not consent and repeatedly said "no." Comments the director made apparently indicate he thought they she eventually consented because she enjoyed it. That's not how it works.

Add in the scene where Drogo raped Daenerys (in another departure from a consensual sex scene from the books, although its another issue that she was sold into the marriage and I'm not sure that's consensual, its not as brutal) and how she subsequently goes on to fall in love with him, and I think this show (that I love) has a massive problem with how it treats rape and I believe it reinforces the dominant belief in our culture that women are only raped in dark alleys by strangers, not by men who they know (including spouses), and that any woman who accuses a man she knows of rape probably egged him on in some way, liked it in the end, or deserved it. Game of Thrones isn't unique in this respect; almost all culture reflects the reality of our society. But it certainly isn't breaking the mold, and that's a shame. I also don't believe for a second that it is possible to completely separate culture and society. We had sitting congressmen using 24 to justify torture after 9/11. I'd argue that there's a responsibility if you are producing something as popular as Game of Thrones to do it in a responsible way. That doesn't mean not depicting rape, but it does mean depicting it in a way that makes it clear that rape is a terrible crime and not something that women secretly enjoy.

Zersch @ 22/4/2014 16:20

Ok. I guess I grossly underestimate the influence a television show has on rape stats.

I think you know that culture affects the way that people think. It's quite obvious. Game of Thrones is not going to lead to a rape epidemic. You can reduce what I'm saying to that, but it isn't what I'm saying. But somebody who is consuming a bunch of culture that already excuses rape is now watching Game of Thrones excuse or less-than-condemn rape. Its a cumulative affect that leads a man to think that a drunk woman or a woman who he is in a relationship with is obligated to have sex with him and can be forced to do so. No, some guy is not just sitting there watching Game of Thrones and suddenly runs out of his house to rape a woman because he sees that scene. But it is upholding and reinforcing the beliefs and practices that justify an epidemic of rape that exists today, largely committed by men who do not even think they are raping anyone because their culture has conditioned them that way.