Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:21

Her parents took Leelah out of school and took away all of her access to social media for almost half a year. She literally told her parents to fuck off in her Sorry note. Her parents do not deserve sympathy for the loss of their daughter. They should been taken to court for abuse.

If every 16 year old got everything they wanted the world would be a terrible terrible place, the reason you are still a minor when you're 16 is because you're too fucking young to decide to make HUGE life altering decisions.

I think Natalie has teenager/s right? I know Buffy raised a couple at some point and time. What would happen if you let your kids do whatever the fuck they wanted to at 16?

If this tranny chick wanted to transition, more power to her. WAIT TIL YOUR FUCKING 18! It's not child abuse to not let your teenager do something you don't think is in their best interest WHATEVER IT IS.

There's millions of people on this planet that got raised by shitty people and have no relationship with their parents because of that. Thats life, deal with it and move on.

Chris25 @ 1/1/2015 18:29

Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:21 Her parents took Leelah out of school and took away all of her access to social media for almost half a year. She literally told her parents to fuck off in her Sorry note. Her parents do not deserve sympathy for the loss of their daughter. They should been taken to court for abuse. If every 16 year old got everything they wanted the world would be a terrible terrible place, the reason you are still a minor when you're 16 is because you're too fucking young to decide to make HUGE life altering decisions. I think Natalie has teenager/s right? I know Buffy raised a couple at some point and time. What would happen if you let your kids do whatever the fuck they wanted to at 16? If this tranny chick wanted to transition, more power to her. WAIT TIL YOUR FUCKING 18! It's not child abuse to not let your teenager do something you don't think is in their best interest WHATEVER IT IS. There's millions of people on this planet that got raised by shitty people and have no relationship with their parents because of that. Thats life, deal with it and move on.

And LOL for child abuse being not letting your kid use social media. OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!!!!

Buffy @ 1/1/2015 18:32

Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:21 Her parents took Leelah out of school and took away all of her access to social media for almost half a year. She literally told her parents to fuck off in her Sorry note. Her parents do not deserve sympathy for the loss of their daughter. They should been taken to court for abuse. Parents make mistakes but they were probably trying their best. To say they deserve no sympathy, though.. I don't know what was going through any of their heads but don't judge them until you have been in their situation.

Exactly, if these people were close minded christian bigots then they might have thought this was just a phase or something, at the end of the day these people lost a child.

Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:55

But they were close minded Christian bigots. And yes, it was abuse. Her parents did everything they could from letting Leelah be herself and tried to make them who he parents wanted them to be. Leelah felt trapped in her own body and knew she was different since she was young. Her age should not invalidate her feelings because she wasn't legal. I knew since I was 13 that I wasn't straight. Is my sexuality invalidated because I was so young? I knew what I felt and Leelah knew what she felt. It was her life that her parents tried to control and make her feel that she wasn't a human being.

When i was a freshman in high school, i wanted to go out partying and drinking every weekend with my GF (who happened to be a hot senior). GUESS WHAT, my parents wouldnt let me.

I bitched and moaned and fought with my parents but at the end of the day I WAS STILL A MINOR and they could do whatever the fuck they wanted to me. I got grounded multiple times for doing shit they didn't want me to do, they took away the internet and wouldn't let me go out on the weekend. I was PISSED.

You know what I didn't do? FUCKING KILL MYSELF

The Anti-Kiwifruit @ 1/1/2015 20:31

Moose @ 2/1/2015 14:29 The Anti-Kiwifruit @ 1/1/2015 20:25 Based on that letter, that didn't seem to be an issue at all, she found out what they were at 14. But once again, the internet is not a basic human right. Her right to be the person she wanted to be was the right I was referring to. How expensive is it to transition out of curiosity?

Yeah, no shit. Despite what nofo says, i don't hate trannies. I think they should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want to do.

HOWEVER, if i had a kid that was 16 and wanted me to pay for them to go see a "gender therapist" and wanted me to pay for fucking estrogen pills or whatever, I'd tell that kid to fuck off and get a fucking job.

Moose @ 1/1/2015 20:29

The Anti-Kiwifruit @ 1/1/2015 20:25 Based on that letter, that didn't seem to be an issue at all, she found out what they were at 14. But once again, the internet is not a basic human right. Her right to be the person she wanted to be was the right I was referring to.

And what about the 16 year old kids who want to be all fucking tatted up and pierced and shit but their parents won't let them?

I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THE PERSON I WANT TO BE MOM AND DAD, FUCK YOU I HATE YOU

Natalie @ 1/1/2015 21:44

Just want to add a few comments from a different perspective. As a mom I have agonized over many decisions I have made in the years I've been raising these two people. I've taken roads less traveled and have questioned it the whole time. I have cried myself to sleep with worry and concern, hoping that the judgement some have passed would in the end be wrong. As it turns out, homeschooling my people was a perfect fit and they have thrived. They are not locked in a dungeon but well adjusted awesome people with friends and a social life. I love my children with every ounce of my being and until you have a kid, you can't really understand what that means. I have had to tell them no to things. My rule has always been nothing permanent. No tattoos, piercings,or whatever until they are 18. That's not me just being mean, it's me understanding I'd have likely made some stupid decisions at 16 that could have effected me for the rest of my life and my chosen career. Above all things I have always tried to maintain a good relationship and separate connection with each of my kids. The reality is they may hate me or hate some of the decisions I have made but at the end of the day, I can honestly say I have done my absolute best, with Gods help, to raise two really awesome people.

Stop Natalie, you sound reasonable. Thats completely unacceptable.

papershiki @ 1/1/2015 21:06

Chris you are kind of missing the point. It wasn't simply they refused to pay for her to transition, they refused to accept her identity. Even after her death, they are calling her their beloved son Joshua.

I guess i don't really see whats wrong with that. When they think back upon their dead child's life they're going to remember Joshua's first Christmas and Joshua's first day of school and the first time Joshua got first place in a spelling bee or whatever the fuck.

Just because the kid decided later in life that he wanted to to be a girl, that doesnt erase 16 years of memories of their son.

Nofo ☭ @ 1/1/2015 22:10

Chris25 @ 1/1/2015 23:07 Natalie @ 1/1/2015 21:44 Just want to add a few comments from a different perspective. As a mom I have agonized over many decisions I have made in the years I've been raising these two people. I've taken roads less traveled and have questioned it the whole time. I have cried myself to sleep with worry and concern, hoping that the judgement some have passed would in the end be wrong. As it turns out, homeschooling my people was a perfect fit and they have thrived. They are not locked in a dungeon but well adjusted awesome people with friends and a social life. I love my children with every ounce of my being and until you have a kid, you can't really understand what that means. I have had to tell them no to things. My rule has always been nothing permanent. No tattoos, piercings,or whatever until they are 18. That's not me just being mean, it's me understanding I'd have likely made some stupid decisions at 16 that could have effected me for the rest of my life and my chosen career. Above all things I have always tried to maintain a good relationship and separate connection with each of my kids. The reality is they may hate me or hate some of the decisions I have made but at the end of the day, I can honestly say I have done my absolute best, with Gods help, to raise two really awesome people. Stop Natalie, you sound reasonable. Thats completely unacceptable. You lose all right to argue when you completely ignore shikis points.

Addressed yw.

Dylan @ 2/1/2015 13:51

I feel like that post was more or less what Chris said about the opposite side.

My favorite part of this thread so far was KC, Nofo and Mal discussing the merits of my arguments in this and other threads.

Moose @ 2/1/2015 19:02

Glad to see this important topic has been reduced to gifs and pictures.

Meh, its not that important.

I saw this on reddit today.

Spoiler

+

A PSA FOR THE FRIENDS OF TRANS INDIVIDUALS SUCH AS MYSELF A while back something unpleasant happened to me and I was so taken aback that rather than react appropriately I forced a smile and pretended nothing was wrong. It's an old defense mechanism; I feign candor, a complete openness and lack of personal boundaries so that I can pretend not to be hurt when people trample over them. I felt ashamed at not being more assertive, not handling it better, so it's taken me a long while to speak up. So. A public service announcement -- this will, due to circumstance, specifically address dealings with transgender women, but with a little imagination one can easily extrapolate it to interactions with persons of all gender and sexual variations: When you are enjoying a casual outing in public with a transgender woman, it is not polite to ask whether or not she plans to have her genitals surgically altered. It is not polite to ask whether her hormones will "shrink your balls." It is not polite to ask her if her "dick still works." Would you appreciate being asked, in the midst of a crowd of people you only partially know, how large your penis or labia are? What shade the skin? If it's hairy? If your vagina experiences ample lubrication or your penis sufficient tumescence to successfully engage in the act of coitus? Would these be welcome questions to be asked uninvited, unprovoked, or would they make you feel like a bug in a jar whose presence has suddenly shifted from "guest" to "novelty?" If you would never dream of asking a woman you just met about the most intimate details of the most intimate part of her anatomy, then doing so of a trans woman is implicitly telling her that you don't actually regard her as a woman at all. But then you probably wouldn't ask a man you just met about his penis either, so what that REALLY says is that you don't even think of her as a person. She's an oddity to be prodded, a freak to be gawked at. I just wanted a girls' night out. Instead I was humiliated and suffered the betrayal of self that was laughing my way through it because I couldn't bear to do anything else. I'm sorry, I'm trying not to be emotional, but it's rather difficult. I'm not naming names here, nor shall I, and if anyone reading this recognizes their own conduct in my account of the events I'll appreciate your not stepping forward to comment publicly, be it to apologize or defend yourselves. I am not posting this to stir up drama or rake anyone across the coals, I'm posting this because it clearly needs to be explained. Thank you for your attention.

I don't understand how people believe they have a "right" to not be offended. People are put in uncomfortable situations CONSTANTLY.

This is the kinda stuff that pisses me off. If you have a problem with someone address it with them, don't just laugh it off and then bitch about it later on the internet like its a national fucking tragedy

Jesus fucking Christ people

Chris25 @ 21/1/2015 18:28

I saw this on reddit today. Spoiler + A PSA FOR THE FRIENDS OF TRANS INDIVIDUALS SUCH AS MYSELF A while back something unpleasant happened to me and I was so taken aback that rather than react appropriately I forced a smile and pretended nothing was wrong. It's an old defense mechanism; I feign candor, a complete openness and lack of personal boundaries so that I can pretend not to be hurt when people trample over them. I felt ashamed at not being more assertive, not handling it better, so it's taken me a long while to speak up. So. A public service announcement -- this will, due to circumstance, specifically address dealings with transgender women, but with a little imagination one can easily extrapolate it to interactions with persons of all gender and sexual variations: When you are enjoying a casual outing in public with a transgender woman, it is not polite to ask whether or not she plans to have her genitals surgically altered. It is not polite to ask whether her hormones will "shrink your balls." It is not polite to ask her if her "dick still works." Would you appreciate being asked, in the midst of a crowd of people you only partially know, how large your penis or labia are? What shade the skin? If it's hairy? If your vagina experiences ample lubrication or your penis sufficient tumescence to successfully engage in the act of coitus? Would these be welcome questions to be asked uninvited, unprovoked, or would they make you feel like a bug in a jar whose presence has suddenly shifted from "guest" to "novelty?" If you would never dream of asking a woman you just met about the most intimate details of the most intimate part of her anatomy, then doing so of a trans woman is implicitly telling her that you don't actually regard her as a woman at all. But then you probably wouldn't ask a man you just met about his penis either, so what that REALLY says is that you don't even think of her as a person. She's an oddity to be prodded, a freak to be gawked at. I just wanted a girls' night out. Instead I was humiliated and suffered the betrayal of self that was laughing my way through it because I couldn't bear to do anything else. I'm sorry, I'm trying not to be emotional, but it's rather difficult. I'm not naming names here, nor shall I, and if anyone reading this recognizes their own conduct in my account of the events I'll appreciate your not stepping forward to comment publicly, be it to apologize or defend yourselves. I am not posting this to stir up drama or rake anyone across the coals, I'm posting this because it clearly needs to be explained. Thank you for your attention. I don't understand how people believe they have a "right" to not be offended. People are put in uncomfortable situations CONSTANTLY. This is the kinda stuff that pisses me off. If you have a problem with someone address it with them, don't just laugh it off and then bitch about it later on the internet like its a national fucking tragedy Jesus fucking Christ people

For the record, this is my actual opinion and not an attempt to troll

Curtis @ 21/1/2015 18:33

Chris please don't take the Lord's name in vain

You had me at hello

Malion @ 21/1/2015 18:58

so you're mad that someone else isn't as open about being mad? Not everyone is balls to the walls or wants to start shit. Did you comment directly to this person or did you just nod and then come here to complain about it in private?

I did make a comment on the reddit article.

I'm pissed because people believe that they have a right to not be offended and that specific right trumps everyone elses right to say what they want either intentionally or unintentionally.