Rob @ 17/2/2013 2:47

I can't believe I'm typing thes words, but I pretty much totally agree with Henry. I thought it was pretty odd how the whole Panda lynch went down, and I think that probably some of the scum bandwagoned onto him as an easy goat. It did seem like the Drr lynch evaporated suspiciously quickly, and the coordination of the Boc/Drr switches that Curtis mentioned were pretty suspect - especially given that Panda was a town and it seems fairly obvious that the guy had no idea what he was doing. I'm still more inclined towards Drr, but I'm still not convinced that Greenday isn't scum. He's acting rather suspiciously, and it's eerily reminiscent of the time he was Godfather in Sausage Mafia.

Okay, please explain to me WHY the train on me "evaporating" is suspicious. It was a day 1 silliness lynch that got uncomfortably close to success and based entirely on the grounds of me having a silly schtick that day. There was no genuine argument for me to go.

LSFissue got votes because as the day was winding down there were still no genuine game-based reason to go for anyone (until the :| Perry post), he hadn't shown up at all. As soon as he was proven non-inactive, the vote switched to someone who had made a :| post.

And to Curtis (and Ublaz) I'm sorry, if you think a sudden I TEST X PEOPLE LYNCH Y post is a clear joak and not at all suspicious, you have a very different definition of suspicious than I do! And now that he's flipped town a few of you seem to want to go on saying "it was just a joke, that was so suspicious that they jumped on that, he was so pure and innocent and they slaughtered him."

But you didn't do anything to stop it yesterday. You just didn't get involved on any trains so you could have the high ground today to argue about what all those other people.

I stand by lynching Perry. while he was ultimately town, he was the only person exibiting suspicious behavior that was worth lynching for. Someone had to die, and I'm glad it was the one that there was a genuine case against, even if ultimately he was just making a poorly formed joak.

Leaffan20 @ 17/2/2013 7:30

My attempted assassination was probably mafia. Also Dylan surviving an attack isn't always fishy.

Surviving an attack when you being attacked at all in the first place is unexpected is a bit suspicious. I think there are a few possibilites on what happened though, so I am not unsure enough of it to make a ruling on it yet.

On the other hand, I don't think you've ever played with me when I was Town, Rob, but I tend to be pretty invested and vocal when I am.

I didn't see him as being silly. I saw him as suddenly appearing after already making a silly lynch and piling a vote onto someone with a growing train and using trusting the people on that train as an excuse. Basically, I saw it as scum jumping on to a train without reading through throughly in an attempt to deflect from a growing train against a potential scummate.

If he flipped scum, that would indicate an agenda he might have had.

Unfortunately I didn't weigh the possibility of town Perry randomly hoping trains with a ridiculous reasoning/possible joke. And definitely didn't expect that he was a town double vote attempting to pretty much seal the deal for no reason!

And I realize you admitted you sat back, but that still doesn't change the fact that you didn't endorse a vote which allowed you to look good this phase no matter what happened. Though you tend to do that, so I don't particularly find it scummy on its own from you, just annoying.

Rob on the other hand...

Rob @ 17/2/2013 7:29

Dr. Fröken Drrr @ 17/2/2013 3:39 But you didn't do anything to stop it yesterday. You just didn't get involved on any trains so you could have the high ground today to argue about what all those other people. I voted for the person I most genuinely believed to be scum: Greenday. In fact, I was one of the first to vote for him, which means I helped start a different lynch train, and I also said that I thought voting for Panda was the wrong idea, which as far as I know is the definition of doing something to stop it. Sure, I didn't scream it from the rooftops, but that's because I didn't know for certain that he wasn't scum, and I didn't fancy the idea of being left holding the bag if he was.

That isn't even remotely the definition of trying to stop it. Saying "eh I think that's not such a good idea guys" then sitting back and watching is just setting yourself up to say "I told you so."

Jeffrey, I see you. What are your thoughts!

Rob, the thing is, the point of mafia is to argue a case. If you think a mistake is being made, you have to make it known. You can't just sit back and shake your head and go "sigh, failtown again. I said I disagreed for a few minutes. I tired. I really really tried. But these foolish townies... they just never listen to me."

If someone thinks its suspicious or scummy, then so what? If you aren't scum and you know you aren't scum then fight for your innocence when that happens and find the real scum. We get death flips here, and while town isn't always right, holding back and just casually going "oh I think this is a bad plan. Not going to elaborate on it really, just thought you all should know. Its a bad plan," harms our cause more than it helps.

I was refering to Curtis with the statement about not joining any trains. I remember you voted for Greenday due to jewish (or maybe because he was being overly defensive about getting any votes).

But the thing is making a case and arguing it out is what town SHOULD do. The quiet ones aren't necessarily scum and ultimately the quiet ones survive longer, but this isn't about survival for us. This is about taking out the non-town and assuming the risk that that entails. Being vocal will get you noticed more than the grims who only post when they need to seem like they've made a post that day, but ultimately its arguing it out and discussing that makes the difference. Not arguing because someone will argue back is ridiculous. Also, calm down with the metagaming a bit!

Rant aside, WHY do you think that Greenday is definitely scum? Yesterday you said it was because it was a joke vote based on a screenshot you found on futurama that implied bots are jewish. Today he's scum. If you have a case for greenday then make the case.

Natalie @ 17/2/2013 13:44

Boc @ 16/2/2013 22:42 Oh and the Jeff survival IS pretty fishy since there's no way a doctor would protect him last night after making one whole post on D1. But considering there was only one kill there's only 3 likely scenarios: he's BP, the mafia got blocked and Jeff was hit by vig or SK, or Jeff is SK and got hit by mafia. So 2 of the 3 paint him as scum, but obviously it's not enough to go on yet. Definitely something to keep in mind though My mafia ignorance will probably show with this question, but why is 2/3 not enough to go on? Isn't that in a way more to go on than we have on anyone else at this point?

Its because option 1 is he is the mafia don and cannot be killed at night. That's pretty close to a universal role and I don't think we have ever had a game without that. However, there was only one attack last night, and the potential for the mafia's kills to be blocked by a town roleblocker is quite low, especially night one. And I think we're past the point where anyone thinks that mafia attacking their BP don on day 1 is a clever gambit.

Option 2 is that he is a serial killer and cannot be killed at night. The odds for this are a bit higher than don, though it would mean that if he was, he was both attacked and blocked last night (serial killers generally don't/can't forgo a kill).

Option 3 is that he is town BP or otherwise a protected town. That would mean the mafia went for a target they thought would be more low key (to keep all the more vocal players fighting after the near-tie and Panda-is-town clusterfuck) and hit bulletproof/protected. We know Jeff was attacked, and we know that that was the only attack to make it to the attempt stage (any others either didn't happen or were blocked), it seems likeliest that he was the mafia target.

It doesn't prove anything either way, but while there are 3 possible reasons he could have survived, the lower amount of kills makes his survival somewhat less suspicious than if he survived a bloodbath.

Its worth keeping an eye on but if he's the slightly more likely town variation of the 3 possibilities, he's valuable. So it isn't worth killing him to clear up the confusion.

I would feel much more comfortable though if he made a post that wasn't terrible

How much time is remaining?/is plurality in effect?

Also, Jeff, I think we wanted you to say something about your suspicions and opinions! Not OH MEN GUYS HERE IS MY ROLE OH MEN. That's even fishier than before! Seriously, jeff, do you have any opinions that are not "hi!" And "DON'T SUSPECT ME!!"?

Nevermind, switched my phone back into EST. Any idea what the count is right now?