Igor @ 29/10/2017 23:57

Until someone else stands up this is bullshit. Michael Jackson went through the same bullshit and it was all fabricated. If there are more accusations then there may be some credibility to it, until then lets wait until we see more

LOLno- now I feel like I have to post up the Triumph the Insult Comic Dog at the Michael Jackson trial video again.

Igor @ 30/10/2017 14:51

vladykins @ 30/10/2017 14:37 Igor @ 29/10/2017 23:57 Until someone else stands up this is bullshit. Michael Jackson went through the same bullshit and it was all fabricated. If there are more accusations then there may be some credibility to it, until then lets wait until we see more LOLno- now I feel like I have to post up the Triumph the Insult Comic Dog at the Michael Jackson trial video again. Read the rest of the thread doofus

I did- but you still claimed the Michael Jackson stuff was fabricated. Thus- lolno.

Wikey @ 30/10/2017 15:38

Conspiracy of silence is what allows these shits to get away with it. I don't get it, sexual abuse seems to be an inside joke with a lot of the people in the know, and none of them name names. Nobody comes forward. No doubt because they fear their power, but srsly. What would stop a bunch of high profile celebrities who knew someone was dodgy all banding together to call them out? don't get it.

Look at people like Tarantino. according to him, his GF told him about Weinstein, but he just kept his mouth shut because it allowed him to keep making movies. That's how this shit happens.

There was a scriptwriter who heard a girl say she was meeting with Weinstein and he warned her to be careful. She told Weinstein about it and dude's scriptwriting days were done.

Igor @ 30/10/2017 15:01

vladykins @ 30/10/2017 15:00 Igor @ 30/10/2017 14:51 vladykins @ 30/10/2017 14:37 Igor @ 29/10/2017 23:57 Until someone else stands up this is bullshit. Michael Jackson went through the same bullshit and it was all fabricated. If there are more accusations then there may be some credibility to it, until then lets wait until we see more LOLno- now I feel like I have to post up the Triumph the Insult Comic Dog at the Michael Jackson trial video again. Read the rest of the thread doofus I did- but you still claimed the Michael Jackson stuff was fabricated. Thus- lolno. Woah you can't be serious right now?

You mean the fact that Jackson would have kids stay at his house and lay in bed with them and they would "play"? Nooooo, that's like totally normal and fabricated. Testimony like Culkin's was countered by Jackson's cook who said he witnessed it. Corey Feldman, who we all know was friends with Jackson, said himself: "I started looking at each piece of information, and with that came this sickening realization that there have been many occurrences in my life and in my relationship to Michael that have created a question of doubt." Others on Jackson's staff had similar stories.

Jackson had money and he made it go away, much as Weinstein was doing.

Dadd @ 31/10/2017 10:50

I don't really care either way .... but is Reddit now a reliable source?

LOL- apparently.

Bryce @ 31/10/2017 19:21

Igor...what happened man???

I think Michael Jackson made him a hot dog sandwich and he's not been able to handle the accusations since then.

Wikey @ 1/11/2017 13:17

How is Igor sexist tho?

I think they are pointing out the "Men's lives ruined by false accusations" while ignoring the thousands of women whose lives are ruined by being raped but don't say anything because when they do, they are accused of "lying", or "being a slut", or "wanting it at the time and now regretting it", "Or just trying to gold dig", and a thousand other things. Because men being accused are the *real* victims, right? </sarcasm>

Not sure if I need to close a <pretension> tag but I'm sure Igor will let me know.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:26

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 13:22 Wikey @ 1/11/2017 13:17 How is Igor sexist tho? I think they are pointing out the "Men's lives ruined by false accusations" while ignoring the thousands of women whose lives are ruined by being raped but don't say anything because when they do, they are accused of "lying", or "being a slut", or "wanting it at the time and now regretting it", "Or just trying to gold dig", and a thousand other things. Because men being accused are the *real* victims, right? </sarcasm> Not sure if I need to close a <pretension> tag but I'm sure Igor will let me know. Nice job of putting words in my mouth. I encourge victims of sexual assault to come forward. I just won't pitchfork someone until I see solid evidence. I'm not victim blaming or slut shaming. Quit being a SJW

Yes, and people like Tarantino didn't believe their own GIRLFRIEND when they talked about Weinstein. Because, you know, he was such a stand up guy who hooked Tarantino up with a lot of cash to make movies. So he gave him the benefit of the doubt, just like you. Where's the *hard proof*? And when the hard proof finally comes, how many people's lives were fucked up or ruined? Or do you even believe all the Weinstein stories- after all, where's the hard proof there? Maybe they are just trashing Harvey's reputation, right? We should all reserve judgement and let the creep get away with it again and again and again and again.

I am just curious now at what level do we have to wait before Igor is comfortable- do we have to wait for a conviction, knowing full well that most of these things aren't easily prosecutable? or that "evidence" is difficult to procure in a case like this? After all, if you come forward, they tend to drag your sexual history out into the open. And, with folks who have money/power, they can do a lot to make the life of an accuser *really* difficult.

Here's a food for thought article for you, before you chalk it up to more SJW crap: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/10/harvey-weinstein-and-the-economics-of-consent/543618/

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:37

I had no idea who this guy was, so again stop putting words in my mouth. By proof i mean police reports or multiple accounts of it happening to others. His gf should have wemt to the police, plain and simple. I'm not trying to shame victims.

Igor- how often have you gone to the police for anything? Do you trust the police enough to go to them? I'm absolutely serious in these questions, because I've had terrible experiences dealing with the police on simple issues. Stuff like "Just got to the police" or "Just obey whatever the officer says" doesn't always work out very well in your favor, and sometimes makes things worse.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:46

Dude ur an idiot. Im not defending Weinstein. Hes obvi guilty, not once in this thread did I say he was innocent.

How do you know he's guilty? Again- I'm curious where your "standard" is, because it sounds to me like you are worried about false accusations. So you accept the accusations about Weinstein but I'm "stupid" if I do the same for somebody else because you are afraid of "false accusations". Again- I'm trying to see where you draw the line, because it's definitely not clear to me how I can be "smart" like you.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:56

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 13:46 Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:37 I had no idea who this guy was, so again stop putting words in my mouth. By proof i mean police reports or multiple accounts of it happening to others. His gf should have wemt to the police, plain and simple. I'm not trying to shame victims. Igor- how often have you gone to the police for anything? Do you trust the police enough to go to them? I'm absolutely serious in these questions, because I've had terrible experiences dealing with the police on simple issues. Stuff like "Just got to the police" or "Just obey whatever the officer says" doesn't always work out very well in your favor, and sometimes makes things worse. Honestly if I was raped I'd trust the police, but again I'm not a woman so my perspective is different. For the most part if I'm a victim of a crime I trust the cops in my area.

Would you like me to provide real life examples from my own life, despite them being "anecdotal", where the police have been less-than helpful and often abusive? And I'm a white male. If you've always had pleasant experiences with police, then I'm glad for you. But a lot of other people have not had that experience.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:53

@Nofo Then go to your supervisor or whoever is in charge if its something like that

You'd be amazed at how little that does unless you have access to definite proof and somebody at the top who will take care of things. Otherwise, like you said earlier, it's "his word against yours". So the victims tack up until someone finally speaks, then the floodgates open. And all those other people get asked "If it happened to you, why didn't you say anything? You just want money now. It's all a frame up!"

There are very good reasons this shit stays underground for too long.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 14:00

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 13:48 Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:46 Dude ur an idiot. Im not defending Weinstein. Hes obvi guilty, not once in this thread did I say he was innocent. How do you know he's guilty? Again- I'm curious where your "standard" is, because it sounds to me like you are worried about false accusations. So you accept the accusations about Weinstein but I'm "stupid" if I do the same for somebody else because you are afraid of "false accusations". Again- I'm trying to see where you draw the line, because it's definitely not clear to me how I can be "smart" like you. Multiple accounts from victims. Rumors that hes a sleezeball Thia is what a consider evidence If someone came to me and said they were assaulted I'd tend to believe them. But in high prodile cases there is financial incentive for deception In lower profile cases the incentive can be revenge etc. you downplaying that false accusations happen is wrong

What I am saying is false accusations compared to letting things go is a balance. For far too long, the balance has been letting things go, while the victims stack up more and more. How many other lives need to be ruined by a person before we decide to do something? How about we try shifting the balance a little because if there are 1 million rapes to every false accusation,* do you focus on the one false accusation? When you do, you encourage the status quo or, worse, you encourage the balance to shift even more. And then when a big case blows, you have all these people asking "Why didn't someone do something earlier?" It comes down to that balance is tilted so far away that you will be treated as a false accuser up to somebody being convicted, and even then there will be people who still don't believe you.

So when someone says Michael Jackson diddled a little boy, and a few other people discuss the questionable shit they've seen about him, and someone who is buddies with him says "Well, he didn't do anything with me but he did enough stuff that makes me question?" knowing full well that many children molested block shit out or, in the case of same sex molestation, are afraid to admit to anyone, including themselves, that they were molested, and that the "facts" that come out of the case is that MJ spent a lot of time in bed with little boys playing, I'm going to let that balance a little and say that he probably diddled at least one boy and probably multiples. There is no hard proof and until a Culkin or Feldman comes forward and says "yep, he did it" knowing full well that everyone will bitch and say "You are just doing it for attention now" and "Why didn't you say stuff earlier?" and the like.



*- Statistic unknown and used for example purposes.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 14:01

Beo i know cops can be pigs, seen plenty of friends get fucked over. Dont need u to lecture me old man

Again, you've been the one belittling me all thread with "stupid" and "idiot" and "ignorant" and now "old man". I'm not sure you can have an argument without ad hominems, but I digress.

You ask lower down what the solution is. Given the difficulty it is for an accuser to come forth in the first place, especially in high profile cases where their name is gonna get dragged in the mud, and knowing full well that investigations will lead nowhere, I tend to lend some weight to any accusation. Because, as I noted above, the balance is waaaaay shifted already.