so, Chris didn't attack Ahoda? And 317 gets attacked all the time without dying? Along with lots of other attacks? I was actually leaning Curtis over Angi as I tried to catch up yesterday, and I'd have lynched Chris without hesitation.

The good news is that ill actually have time to fully catch up tomorrow, so I will be able to give some better thoughts.

I am rereading the game day threads to see if I can pull some useful info, especially from the lynch trains:

D1 - I never put a ton of stock into D1 discussions, but the lynch counts can be useful. The lynch really came down to ahoda or herm. I've noted my thoughts on these wagons before, but I'll reiterate so that my thoughts are down as a whole:

From the ahoda wagon - curt, Sab (dead – town), Chris and dr (was massively attacked), (read Vern as town for now). That pretty much leaves curt and Chris as questions from that wagon for me.

From the herm wagon - spin (dead – town) and Helios (I see odd's role as town currently). That leaves really just helios as a suspect looking at this wagon.

If ahoda is town, then I'm not sure what benefit scum would have to jump on one of them late OTHER THAN getting an extra 5 ULT points. Is that worth it that early to pick up unnecessary attention? Not sure. If ahoda is scum, I'm looking harder at those on the herm train for perhaps saving ahoda. So helios would jump to the top of my scum reads and Odd would jump up a lot as well.

Conclusions from D1 - TBD, but would swing hard if ahoda ends up being mafia.

D2 - The lynch came down to Sab (town) and Vern. A lot of people stated that they see Vern as town and it was tied late. I personally voted Sab because I didn't like the way he popped in nonchalantly and then voted Vern just to save himself.

Here's the count: D2 Final Tally

Sabataged (6/11) - Ahoda, Spin, Vern, Drake, Lamps, Timmah, im317, Helios
Vern (4/11) - Merc, Chris, Vlady, Wikey, Sabataged
Drake (2/11) - Christian, Curtis, thisisbad
Brian (2/11) - Spin, dr
Spin (2/11) - Sabataged, Oddilus
Angi (1/11) - Ahoda
Wikey (0/11) - Oddilus, Angi
im317 (0/11) - Helios
Christian (0/11) - Drake
Merc (0/11) - Angi

Sab was town and I still read Vern is town. IF Vern is indeed town, then I have some of the same thoughts from the D1 lynch - is it worth the extra 5 ULT points to draw attention by jumping onto a town lynch if the lynch is between 2 townies? Again, not sure. Using that logic, I'm looking at those who "threw off" after it was tied up or close late in the day:

-Curtis threw off onto Drake, but later unvoted and ended without a vote (I'd think scum would be more likely to have a vote somewhere just for the points, but maybe not).
-Odd commented, but never used his 2 votes.
-I stated that I didn't like Sab's vote on Vern and was willing to lynch Sab over Vern.
-317 voted Sab because he read Vern as town.
-TIB says he thinks Vern is town and isn't sure about Sab, but then throws off onto a Drake vote without any reasoning.
-spin threw off onto brian and then made sure everyone know he no longer agreed with a Sab lynch
-Drake was all over the thread during this time without doing anything
-Christian and TIB then start talking about flipping the vote to Wikey
-rose says she would rather lynch Wikey or brian, then tosses one off onto brian to make sure she gets ULT points

D2 conclusions: TIB sticks out to me during this for throwing a vote off without any reasoning, and then he started talking about flipping to another vote that wasn't really in play. Drake sticks out to me as well for commenting a lot without picking a side or saying anything substantive. I didn't like the way spin played things during that span (and I was clearly wrong on that one). Christian sticks out to me for what seems to have been trying to flip it last minute (Sab was town though, so not sure how that plays out). Rose's late throw off sticks out to me as well (but, with her claim of being massively attacked I'm sticking with rose more town than not).

D3 - Angi was SK, so I'm not sure what we can gain from that as both factions could be on there. Perhaps mafia was on early? Perhaps we can gather info from who "threw off" or avoided it again? It was essentially a 3 way race, with Chris and Angi perhaps being the main to candidates late in the day (that's how I read it as I was frantically trying to catch up). Here's the count:

Final Tally
Angi (5/11) - Ahoda, Wikey, Curtis, dr, Oddilus, Ahoda
Curtis (3/11) - Vlady, Angi, Ahoda, Drake
Chris (3/11) - Spin, thisisbad, Christian
Ahoda (1/11) - Chris
Dadd (1/11) - Lamps
Drake (1/11) - thisisbad, Wikey
Wikey (1/11) - Vern, Drake, Wikey
Brian (0/11) - dr
Helios (0/11) - Vern
im317 (0/11) - Helios

-The votes piled up on Curtis pretty quickly, before the tide shifted. Interestingly, Drake put Curtis well ahead with the reasoning basically being that Curtis had more votes than he had himself. That's something that sticks out to me.
-Then, for no reason at all Chris claimed that he is a silencer and silenced someone that was still allowed to talk (ahoda). Um... what????
-TIB comes in and makes the first move at this point to really swing the vote towards Chris (spin was already voting him, but this was the first swing move, imo). This may betelling if (a) Curtis is mafia or even if (b) Chris is mafia...
-Wikey doesn't want to lynch either, wants to lynch Drake instead
-Angi then gets called out for trying to float through and piggy-back everyone else - Curtis was first to do this
-dr flips to Angi based on a vibe. At this point of my reread, I'm struggling to formulate and reads based on people reading Angi, because they were correct reads on Angi...
-Christian straight up asks who he should vote and then says he'll probably just toss one on Angi or Chris. Odd post there that sticks out to me.
-Odd votes Angi for the same reasons others did
-Christian says it's Chris or Angi (this was while I was trying to catch up - so perhaps it's why I was thinking those were the 2 lynch candidates)
-most of the rest of the brief remaining day was me asking questions to figure out what was going on.

D3 Conclusions: It stands out to me that TIB appears to have tried to swing a vote for the 2nd straight day. Wikey is still playing an odd game. Chris totally messed up a role claim that was given for no reason to start with, which really sticks out. Drake is sticking out to me once again - I know it's his first game, but there's just a feel to his posts that says he's just trying to get by.

I am not caught up on D4 yet, since I've been spending my time compiling these thoughts. But, it also sticks out to me that in reading through I seem to just be missing several people altogether - Dadd, Merc, Lamps, vlady. I'd like to see more from wikey and brian as well.

Ole' Vern @ 24/8/2016 11:08

Awesome Timmah but who are your main suspects

Let me get caught up on this day and then I'll start pointing fingers

thisisbad @ 24/8/2016 11:43

The one thing Tim forgot to mention is I said I believe sab after he claimed. And combine that with thinking vern was town, my vote ended up elsewhere. I think I even got into it with someone about me saying I believe sab.

Maybe because you knew he was going to flip town?

Okay, caught up officially!

Top reads (no particular order):

TIB - I know you say that you posted about believing Sab, and that's all well and good, but looking through those votals it comes across that you "seem" to have tried to move lynches more than once. I was wrong on spin about pretty much this exact thing, but it's what I'm seeing.

Chris - that role claim. I just can't get past that. His play doesn't seem consistent with what he's tried to say, in the limited interactions that he has had.

Drake - forced interactions, and now he's just flailing about.

Semi-reads: (these are just gut feelings)

Lamps - something seems off

Christian - I go back and forth on Christian seeming off and then seeming town.

Curtis - I always think Curtis is scum

Not enough to get a read:

brian - not a lot of content, step it up or move up to my top reads!

Wikey - see brian

vlady - see brian

merc - I've got nothing on merc, see brian.

Helios Garabandia @ 24/8/2016 11:57

317, stop lurking and talk. How have you been attacked three times in a row for the same damage? I can think of only a handful of reasons you could have survived, and most of them are not good

ohhh, I've completely skipped 317 in my thinking process. I agree with this, fwiw.

thisisbad @ 24/8/2016 11:43

The one thing Tim forgot to mention is I said I believe sab after he claimed. And combine that with thinking vern was town, my vote ended up elsewhere. I think I even got into it with someone about me saying I believe sab.

That claim didn't do much in my opinion though. After D1, ahoda was a pretty good bet to be a targeted player so placing a trap in front of him doesn't just automatically scream "town" to me. It was just as likely to harm town, and at the time (before we saw him flip) it could have been a great play if he was scum since he'd have known that scum wouldn't have targeted ahoda.

itsbrianyay @ 24/8/2016 11:59

move me up to your top reads, i dare you

Done. Brian is now amongst my top reads.

thisisbad @ 24/8/2016 12:08

Timmah It's funny that a guy claimed the truth, I believe the truth, and now you're saying it was a bad claim and I was bad for believing it. Only in Mafia can someone suggest that lying is a much better play than honesty.

That's actually not what I am saying. What I am saying is that you stuck out to me because on MULTIPLE days you tried to initiate a lynch train redirection. You are just arguing one of those days, and I'm not faulting your argument for that particular lynch really. And I am not in any way suggesting that Sab should've lied, just pointing out my own viewpoint at that particular time.

Ole' Vern @ 24/8/2016 13:16

Also noted that Helios was conveniently left out of Timmah's list. Partnership noted..

so were you. just saying

I have no idea how close Chris is to lynch, if he's not actually been lynched already even. It does sound like a helpful ult for Mafia to have. I don't want to hammer and cut the discussion early so I'm going to lynch my next read for now. I might switch over to Chris closer to deadline, but let's see what happens in the interim.

##lynch drake

He started flailing earlier and then made a quick exit as soon as discussion moved to Chris. I feel a little better after my interaction with TIB earlier actually.

-dr @ 24/8/2016 17:45

Was that hammer?

I honestly thought someone might have hammered him like 3 hours ago