thisisbad @ 4/6/2017 10:06

I was totally fine without claims. I honestly hate that. And so there was no odd night vig? I def had you pegged as that timmah especially when you were blocked and one was missing. That's why the other role was hard to process.

Despite the fact that this was a game with inactive mafia, the fact that no mass claim happened made the game fun.

Also, I think the fact that there wasn't this insane pressure to claim really helped town. If Tib had to claim, he probably would have died earlier. If I had to claim, I probably wouldn't have been able to draw attacks towards myself (which is why I was in scum hunting overdrive). It was a nice to have an endgame where we could go on reads, not purely on claims.

Sucks that Ahoda and Zach were the two mafia with the worst luck and they were the only two active mafia members.

Lol @ people literally forgetting Brian was even playing for a few days.

So my team of lynchers theory ended up being correct!

I agree that Lyncher isn't automatically scum, as sometimes they can have the role of killing mafia members, and sometimes their targets are randomly chosen (although, numerically this probably favors scum but w/e).

But if a person is going to try to argue that it's in town's best interest to keep them alive when they are third party roles that are more or less benign, they better have already been working pretty hard at scum hunting and providing value to town. I see people use this type of defense after doing pretty much nothing all game and they expect it to hold up (it didn't happen this game, but it's happen plenty in the past). And to be honest, in those instances I think the third party player deserves to lose.

Because even Third Party isn't always direct scum, there is always the possibility that a more dangerous third party role is lying. Unless they've built up some town cred, or there are better options available, I'll often be willing to test that claim.

So I guess the moral of the story is don't be lazy as a third party.

Also DS basically lost all credibility he had with me because of his bullshit at the beginning of this game. Because even if we bend over backwards to give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't based on a vendetta, it's still terrible game play and the fact that he's defending it is even worse.

It's one thing to try and draw attention to yourself by claiming something fake, but if your plan requires you as town to throw another random player under the bus, and then give a fake role claim trying to verify your information, it's basically a terrible plan and you're being an asshole.

It's worthy of FE's all time HoL, not just this game's.

DS, there are times when I think you really come up with good ways to hunt scum. I thought you did a good job in the game I hosted, for instance.

But there are other times when you fuck up with your scum hunting, and you refuse to acknowledge that there was even a potential mistake or consider that you could have played differently. I can accept people making a mistake and owning up to it... even if it is a very large mistake. But when you adamantly defend your mistakes as good game play, it makes it basically impossible to take your future arguments seriously. I think Mittens explained it best in the graveyard when he said: "You can't expect people to be able to pick and choose which of your statements are true and which are bullshit."

I would like to take a moment to compliment the host on role delegation in this game.

I think that scum had a lot of claim space open at the end of the game. The fact that there was an odd night vig, but not an even night vig was pretty cool. As well as the fact that mafia had a tracker and town didn't. Had mafia been active in this game, I think it would have been really hard (especially if we were depending on claims to determine our lynching instead of reads).

im317 @ 7/6/2017 0:42

BadgerMcBeaver @ 6/6/2017 22:16 I would like to take a moment to compliment the host on role delegation in this game. I think that scum had a lot of claim space open at the end of the game. The fact that there was an odd night vig, but not an even night vig was pretty cool. As well as the fact that mafia had a tracker and town didn't. Had mafia been active in this game, I think it would have been really hard (especially if we were depending on claims to determine our lynching instead of reads). i stopped paying attention to everything but the flips at some point. did the mafia ever try and claim Curtis' role?

He was Roleblocker, so it was not really possible for them to do so.

Darren Sanders @ 6/6/2017 23:40

BadgerMcBeaver @ 6/6/2017 19:13 DS, there are times when I think you really come up with good ways to hunt scum. I thought you did a good job in the game I hosted, for instance. But there are other times when you fuck up with your scum hunting, and you refuse to acknowledge that there was even a potential mistake or consider that you could have played differently. I can accept people making a mistake and owning up to it... even if it is a very large mistake. But when you adamantly defend your mistakes as good game play, it makes it basically impossible to take your future arguments seriously. I think Mittens explained it best in the graveyard when he said: "You can't expect people to be able to pick and choose which of your statements are true and which are bullshit." Im not defending my play, but it wasnt a vendetta and i did hit a scumbucket regardless of if he was mafia or not. Plus, please engage this from my point of view. I had a role which, with my personality, was VERY likely to draw town to me and out them. That, combined with, quitting my job, starting a new one, and traveling to three different cities in the last week and also getting subbed in randomly to the mafia championship last minute, it turned out I really did not have much time to play this game and as such that made me approach that role as "fuck it. im gonna TRY and draw attention to myself." Picked spin since he was the last one to post, called him scum, didnt like his reaction, called him scum more (which wasnt my initial plan, I was testing my mafia championship reaction test and was gonna back off), super didnt like his claim (so i doubled down), pushed him more, no one liked his claim so we lynched him AND I also attempted to give an out to people who would be visiting me. Most people listened. Mittens didnt. Thats totally on me. I apologize to Mittens once again. I mean it might have been a shitshow but thats what that role was designed for and I just did it in over the top DS fashion. The mods got what I was doing and seemed to enjoy it. Btw, thanks Jamie/Christian I had fun for the day I got to play!

OK here's the thing though. I don't mind you testing a reaction and I actually agreed with you at the time on Spin's reaction being off (which is why I supported your lynch of him). But this went beyond testing for a reaction because you presented the information as concrete and mod confirmed. As a town member, feel free to put your reads and opinions out there as long as you acknowledge that it's actually your reads and opinions. Because then people can reasonably evaluate whether or not your line of thinking makes sense.

But when you lie to all of town about what the mods told you it indicates that you don't really give a shit about anyone else's reads than your own, and that is the reason I am so annoyed that I vouched for you that round. When you claim it's mod confirmed and it clearly isn't, then of course people are going to be pissed at you regardless of what your intentions are. If everyone adopted the mentality that you have, these games would be unplayable.

To put it in perspective, Timmah also put his read of Zach out there publicly on day 4 without any concrete info. But he didn't falsify role reports, so people aren't mad at him. And had he not tested for Zach's reaction that way, I doubt I would have clued into him being scum, so he played it well. I can appreciate town members taking risks and making accusations as long as they don't lie while they are doing it.

Darren Sanders @ 7/6/2017 2:01

I mean it was a fake claim about receiving fake information so idk what you want me to say about that

Just say you won't do it in the future? Clearly you pissed off basically everyone in this game who wasn't mafia aligned. It doesn't help town, it makes the games less fun, and it's just an obnoxious thing to do in general.

If you don't want to commit to that, so be it. But don't be pissed when I inevitably day 1 lynch you next game. Because that's pretty much where I'm at if you're gonna pull this shit every game.

Darren Sanders @ 7/6/2017 2:05

Plus I mean it was day one, if it was later in the game then yeah I would understand your frustration but I feel like you're overreacting a bit

OK. But if your read on Spin being scum was incorrect, would you still be saying that?

I kinda want to move away from the DS stuff so...

I do wanna say that Angi played a very impressive game this game. I know it's not Hall of Fame time yet, but gurl was ON POINT with all her reads.