That last min Maddie train was frustrating to arrive home to. Zach's claim was shaky at best, but even if we choose to grant him the benefit of the doubt and believe him, it's still a role that will become more detrimental for us the longer it remains in the game (scum has more info in later night phases, and we are less likely to have doc's and roleblockers as the game progresses).

Probably going to be voting for him again today.

Oh yeah

## Lynch Zach

Sorry son :(

Primate @ 24/5/2017 21:06

I would love to hear more from the following today. Sock, boc, kiwi, and nofo

Add Brian to that list.

Primate @ 24/5/2017 21:00

Kiwi and merc look the worst to me out of that lynch.

Why Kiwi? His vote was cast like mid day when there was no train whatsoever.

I mean yeah he's been pretty inactive, but that's an odd person to single out as looking scummy.

thisisbad @ 24/5/2017 21:34

Meh i dunno why i'm holding on. Dunno if it will change anything. So I was silenced yesterday of course. And i did receive angis gift. It let me bus drive for a night. So i choose Badger and Dr/Rose (that confused me for the longest time so that's why i put both)

Thank you for saving my life Tib!

I'm guessing that Vig most likely went after 317 then?

Mercator @ 24/5/2017 21:15

"The following message had been broadcast to the town: That was just horrible. What are you people even doing here?" Am I really the only one that thinks that a town journalist with an investigative power wouldn't have said something else, cleared some town or accused someone else by now?

This is the ridiculous. How can you of all people be complaining about a lack of investigation results when not only did they announce scum in the previous day, but you ignored that information and instead went for the person you had a hunch was sending the message in the first place.

This is the second time that you've come off as attempting to bait the person into outing themselves, which is also super scummy.

My avatar has never been more appropriate.

I did have a townish read on Merc before I left for work yesterday, but I've pretty much done a 180.

List of reasons why it is still in town's best interest to lynch Zach today.

1. We have someone who is directly claiming to have scum results on him. Sure, they are doing it anonymously, but it benefits town in the long run if they remain hidden.

2. His claim is shaky and super convenient for mafia that was trying to buy time. Claiming that you are a princess that triggers off both lynches and kills is a convenient way to try and get out of a lynch while also preventing potential vig kill the following evening.

3. Even if he IS telling the truth, his role is one that can lose town the whole game depending on how deep he makes it. The safest approach with his role is to bite the bullet and lynch him now, hoping that some of the pro town roles still alive are able to make use of the second night phase and that mafia does not yet have the correct information to make their optimal kills.

4. I pushed hard for him to get lynched yesterday, and was attacked that same night. Could be a coincidince, I guess. But they probably knew I wasn't gonna let up on this rationale today, and there are a lot of factors lining up here.

5. We learn a ton about Merc, who has both defended Zach directly and has attempted to smear the journalist for no reason and ignored their results. If Zach is scum, Merc is most definitely scum IMO.

ZacharyB @ 25/5/2017 11:59

I agree with Badger that keeping me alive at this point is a detriment and me getting lynched provides the town a lot of info. That said, I am town, and I'd rather not get mislynched because that just helps scum out by giving them effectively an extra kill. I think odd night vig should just shoot me tonight. But please don't lynch me.

I tbought you clarified yesterday that your ability triggers on both lynches and kills?

Angi @ 25/5/2017 13:59

ZacharyB @ 25/5/2017 14:10 BadgerMcBeaver @ 25/5/2017 14:01 ZacharyB @ 25/5/2017 11:59 I agree with Badger that keeping me alive at this point is a detriment and me getting lynched provides the town a lot of info. That said, I am town, and I'd rather not get mislynched because that just helps scum out by giving them effectively an extra kill. I think odd night vig should just shoot me tonight. But please don't lynch me. I tbought you clarified yesterday that your ability triggers on both lynches and kills? Yeah it does. Sorry I wasn't clear, basically I'm saying y'all should lynch someone else and then just let the vig take care of me tonight. Either way my role is going to trigger, but at least if we lynch someone else today we might hit scum, whereas lynching me is just gonna be a ML. And this is why I can't figure out why you're still alive

Because the longer he stays alive, the better it is for scum. They can make far better use of their extra night phase once more information is out there about the town power roles. Also, Princess is an amazing tool for scum if they are still alive in the end game - around at final 8 or further, an extra night phase is often all it would take for scum to win the game.

That, or he could just be making the role up and is actually maf (in which case they obvy wouldn't kill him). IDK.

ZacharyB @ 25/5/2017 13:11

That said, if y'all want to just lynch me today and get it over with, I agree that that's also going to yield some info and be a net positive to the town probably. But I think lynching someone else could get the town more information and still result in #PrincessGate being resolved.

I'm sorry for pushing so hard for your lynch, because I genuinely do enjoy playing with you (even now, when I'm suspicious of you, you're still pleasant to chat with). But I really think town has to lynch you, because Princess is a really bad role for town if you're telling the truth. And if you're note telling the truth, well then my reasons should be obvious :P.

Mercator @ 25/5/2017 13:32

BadgerMcBeaver @ 24/5/2017 22:38 Mercator @ 24/5/2017 21:15 "The following message had been broadcast to the town: That was just horrible. What are you people even doing here?" Am I really the only one that thinks that a town journalist with an investigative power wouldn't have said something else, cleared some town or accused someone else by now? This is the ridiculous. How can you of all people be complaining about a lack of investigation results when not only did they announce scum in the previous day, but you ignored that information and instead went for the person you had a hunch was sending the message in the first place. This is the second time that you've come off as attempting to bait the person into outing themselves, which is also super scummy. My avatar has never been more appropriate. I didn't ignore it, I did a 180 on it after I realized it wasn't from the person I originally thought it was from, and instead thought it was from who I thought was one of the scummiest people so far. How can you still think it's legit? That message today just reeks of scum, not a town journalist?

We don't have any reason NOT to think it's legit because when we tried to test it, you started a last min train on Maddie based on your personal hunch and a bunch of people hopped on. It definitely came off as an attempt to save a strong scum role, at least to me. And it also prevented us from getting any sort of confirmation on the message sender that you're currently trying to discredit.

Also, your reason for doing a 180 makes no sense. The messenger gave us definitive information that could prove them as correct or incorrect for future days, but you decide to distrust them because they have similar linguistic tendencies to Maddie, and then lynch her based on this assumption when she isn't here and is unable to defend herself. All of this, when we have someone who has been publicly accused as a scum member (with an unlikely claim) and multiple inactives that haven't posted in days to choose from (while Maddie herself has been very active this game).

With the amount of mental gymnastics Merc is doing to try and get this reporter role to be distrusted (and yesterday he tried to directly lynch them), I'm thinking he may have been on that Chaos team with Spin or something. Maybe they are a group of lynchers whose targets were all different? And that is how they create chaos?

ZacharyB @ 25/5/2017 14:36

Quote With the amount of mental gymnastics Merc is doing to try and get this reporter role to be distrusted (and yesterday he tried to directly lynch them), I'm thinking he may have been on that Chaos team with Spin or something. Maybe they are a group of lynchers whose targets were all different? And that is how they create chaos? Is it possible that the lynchers only know what roles they have to lynch instead of players? If so this theory makes a lot of sense

It's definitely possible. In Spin's flip, it says he has an action but that it's redacted (which I assume means we learn about it at the end of the game?). This information was probably withheld from us for balance purposes, which makes me think they could have contained information pertaining to certain roles existing in the game. Hosts probably didn't want to repeat the scenario where a player gets outed by role information that pops up as hidden text in a flip.

Perhaps each of them has a certain role that they lynch and their night action involves searching for that person? If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a combination of mafia and town targets.

vladykins @ 25/5/2017 14:35

ZacharyB @ 25/5/2017 14:07 vladykins @ 25/5/2017 14:55 Based on what you claimed, mafia get an additional free night either way. If you are lying and mafia, exposing our vig is not a good idea. If you are what you say, mafia get two nights either way, so i see no advantage in waiting until night. Mafia gets a free additional night either way, yes, but if we lynch scum today it'll at least somewhat offset the extra day they get. Lynching me today 100% results in a mislynch and scum getting an extra night. The only way lynching me could be advantageous is that it allows the vig to kill someone else, but there's no guarantee he hits scum. Also I don't see how the vig killing me exposes him?? Mafia tracker flipped. You dismissing the possibility of mafia watcher because you feel it is OP seems scummy to me. We've lost even night vig and if mafia has watcher, they'll know odd night vig *and* if you are truly princess, they'll have another night to freely take him out without town having the ability to counter it. Vig is a danger to mafia so they would love an obvious opportunity to spot him or her.

The other important thing, is that it's not only Mafia Watcher that can screw up the plan. If either Mafia Doc or Mafia Busser exists, they can also easily negate the plan (especially since the town watcher has already flipped, so they aren't really at risk in doing so).

IDK I just hate the Princess role in general. It feels like there's no correct way to play it, especially when kills and lynches both set off the additional night phase.

Also, just thought I would post these here.

Day 1

Spin (8/15) - DS, Merc, Josh, Lamps, Lamps, Mittens, Badger, Lamps, Stephen, Badger, Josh, Herm DS (5/15) - Timmah, Primate, Ahoda, Mittens, Badger, Josh, im317, Spin, Helios Merc (2/15) - Angi, Boc Curtis (1/15) - Sock Josh (1/15) - Nofo Patrick (1/15) - Ahoda Stephen (0/15) - Primate, Stephen Ahoda (0/15) - Nofo Farlig (0/15) - Ahoda Lamps (0/15) - Spin

Day 2

Mittens (10/14) - Merc, Josh, Ahoda, Helios, Angi, Sock, Boc, im317, Lamps, Kiwi, Hern Vlady (1/14) - Curtis Patrick (1/14) - Angi Merc (1/14) - Mittens Curtis (0/14) - Sock

Day 3

Ahoda (13/13) - Farlig, Nofo, im317, TIB, Helios, Maddie, Angi, ZacharyB, Hern, Miko, Merc, Josh, Ahoda Merc (2/13) - Angi, Primate, Vlady, TIB Miko (1/13) - Sock Patrick (0/13) - Ahoda Dr (0/13) - ZacharyB Maddie (0/13) - Merc Farlig (0/13) - Maddie Helios (0/13) - Hern

Day 4

Maddie (6/11) - Kiwi, Angi, Merc, Zach, Josh, Miko, Helios ZacharyB (4/11) - Merc, Angi, Badger, im317, Vlady, Merc, Stephen, Josh, Primate, Helios, Stephen Angi (1/11) - ZacharyB Merc (1/11) - Primate Stephen (1/11) - Timmah, Zach Primate (0/11) - Badger, Merc Badger (0/11) - Angi