Do you think part of it was that the book was from Jaime's POV, so maybe he was a bit of an unreliable narrator?

It just seems like such a drastic change otherwise. I dunno how much control GRRM has over all the scripts but it seems weird that he'd let something like that by if it's so out of line with the books

SHE CONSENTED HALFWAY THROUGH. DIDN'T YOU SEE?

Boc @ 21/4/2014 0:17

Do you think part of it was that the book was from Jaime's POV, so maybe he was a bit of an unreliable narrator? It just seems like such a drastic change otherwise. I dunno how much control GRRM has over all the scripts but it seems weird that he'd let something like that by if it's so out of line with the books

That I could buy more easily, since unreliable narration is the other game being played in this series.

Dr. Derp @ 21/4/2014 0:19

SHE CONSENTED HALFWAY THROUGH. DIDN'T YOU SEE?

Absolutely, I seen't it! She pushed back - that's his story and he's sticking to it.

Boc @ 21/4/2014 0:17

Do you think part of it was that the book was from Jaime's POV, so maybe he was a bit of an unreliable narrator? It just seems like such a drastic change otherwise. I dunno how much control GRRM has over all the scripts but it seems weird that he'd let something like that by if it's so out of line with the books

True. We did get characters misremembering things in the books (like how Sansa remembers the Hound's actions in her room during Blackwater), but I'm still like "Ugh you could've just followed the book for this scene, writers..." They also did similar shit with Dany and Drogo's wedding night, so I guess they have not learned.

It feels like they might have wanted to make the scene more shocking, but I think it would have been infinitely more so the way it was in the books.

Tywin was really good.

Oberyn is cool but he hasn't had enough screentime yet to really entertain people. We need more of him.

And new Daario continues to not piss me off, which is a bad sign.

I know Cersei and Jaime have a fucked up relationship, and sure, she may have wanted it on some small level...but he raped her. I mean, she's saying no over and over again. It's just rape. I sure as hell was not expecting that at all. Weird change from the books, and it definitely does complicate Jaime's redemption arc. But seeing as he did try to murder a kid in the first episode, maybe it's best we recognize that even the "less evil guys" on this show are still pretty evil.

Yeah, unless they actually address it again I'm going to pretend it was concentual or didnt happen at all. If the directors deciced to have Jaime rape his sister in the middle of his redemption arc then continue the arc from there as if it never happened, its going to be pretty awful. I'd rather write the scene off as poorly communicated than try to justify Jaime's actions at all

Dr. Derp @ 21/4/2014 12:47

If the directors deciced to have Jaime rape his sister in the middle of his redemption arc then continue the arc from there as if it never happened, its going to be pretty awful.

Definitely agree. I can stand for it to not be a straightforward "Jaime is gradually redeemed" arc because in real life people usually stumble and hit roadblocks on their path to improvement, but raping your sister is obviously not just a "roadblock," it's a pretty significantly terrible thing. Cersei is a terrible person but Jaime has really lost any moral high ground with her. I hope the creators don't try to whitewash this, because that is a very irresponsible thing to do and I am not being hyperbolic when I say it can possibly lead to actual people thinking rape is more acceptable and thus committing rape.

Legend @ 21/4/2014 15:01

Dr. Derp @ 21/4/2014 12:47 If the directors deciced to have Jaime rape his sister in the middle of his redemption arc then continue the arc from there as if it never happened, its going to be pretty awful. Definitely agree. I can stand for it to not be a straightforward "Jaime is gradually redeemed" arc because in real life people usually stumble and hit roadblocks on their path to improvement, but raping your sister is obviously not just a "roadblock," it's a pretty significantly terrible thing. Cersei is a terrible person but Jaime has really lost any moral high ground with her. I hope the creators don't try to whitewash this, because that is a very irresponsible thing to do and I am not being hyperbolic when I say it can possibly lead to actual people thinking rape is more acceptable and thus committing rape.

What's worse is that I've been so desensitized to pretty much everything on GoT that my reaction to the scene was to shrug and wonder where they are going to go with that scene if anywhere at all. If nothing comes of that scene it sort of makes it a pointless rape scene they threw in just to have it.

Legend @ 21/4/2014 15:01

Dr. Derp @ 21/4/2014 12:47 If the directors deciced to have Jaime rape his sister in the middle of his redemption arc then continue the arc from there as if it never happened, its going to be pretty awful. Definitely agree. I can stand for it to not be a straightforward "Jaime is gradually redeemed" arc because in real life people usually stumble and hit roadblocks on their path to improvement, but raping your sister is obviously not just a "roadblock," it's a pretty significantly terrible thing. Cersei is a terrible person but Jaime has really lost any moral high ground with her. I hope the creators don't try to whitewash this, because that is a very irresponsible thing to do and I am not being hyperbolic when I say it can possibly lead to actual people thinking rape is more acceptable and thus committing rape.

Seems like hyperbole to me. Anything could potentially possibly lead to actual, dysfunctional idiots thinking and doing anything. I just think the scene sucked for plenty of other reasons without having to take the "won't someone think of the children/teens/mentally handicapped adults" stance.

GRRM on the rape scene:

Quote

In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her. The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection. Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing. If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline. That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.

Pretty much as I thought.

tru

Can I just say that Samm is a fucking idiot.

He could either let Gilly stay at Castle Black, surrounded by men of the nights watch, who would very likely be executed if they lay even a finger on her, or he could take her to an unguarded brothel in some awful village and leave her with a creepy cockney serial killer who hates wildlings...

What did he do? He took her to the brothel OBVIOUSLY.