Primate must be bored as hell with nothing to do at work to be arguing with Vladypoohbear

Primate

You are still ignoring the elephant in the room. The huge chunks of tax dollars that will be in the hands of bloated, inefficient, and corrupt government agencies. If that money stays in the hands of corrupt businesses, there is at least a chance for a smarter individual to get some of it away from them. When it's in the hands of the government, it requires a revolution to wrest it away.

The government thing is something that can happen from agency to agency, but in a functioning democracy those responsible for the corruption should technically be replaced/fired, once found out.

Anyway, talking from a different perspective here but government should be capable if you vote in competent people.

Herm @ 5/2/2016 17:23

government should be capable if you vote in competent people.

And that's why we'll always be screwed ...

vladykins @ 5/2/2016 16:03

Primate @ 5/2/2016 16:52 You are still ignoring the elephant in the room. The huge chunks of tax dollars that will be in the hands of bloated, inefficient, and corrupt government agencies. If that money stays in the hands of corrupt businesses, there is at least a chance for a smarter individual to get some of it away from them. When it's in the hands of the government, it requires a revolution to wrest it away. I can also agree to disagree with you on the economic impacts of killing off the health insurance industry. That said, it's all moot without huge government reform. Look at the health care fiasco and the way it was hampered by the insurance industry who was willing to fight it tooth and nail. You and sanders are trying to paint a skyscraper with a hammer. I live with government guys all the time and when it comes to addressing market failures, "big bloated" government does it much better than business, because a business can't fix a market failure by its nature. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a market failure. ;) This isn't a case of the market eventually correcting itself- the market failures are building on top of each other so that we have the most expensive health care, the most medicated populace, and the near worst health care results from it all. Our system is unsustainable. Moving forward is always going to create upheavals. But arguing that it's going to cause economic problems so we should just wait for it to collapse on its own is not an argument. That's a cop out. And yes, Citizens United needs overturned as well in order to help start cleaning house. People also need to seriously hold their folks accountable and not just elect a president and think it is all going to magically change. But not doing anything isn't a solution. And cotowing to the folks who want to stop progress or even turn it back is even less of a solution.

Take your ideology glasses off and read it again. I'm not arguing to do nothing. I'm arguing to fix the root cause, otherwise it's just political lip service.

If you replace that hammer with a 5500 psi airless sprayer, you and bernie could be painting motherfuckers.

Or if you don't like that analogy:
What Sanders is suggesting is more like putting a jet engine on a garden cart and expecting it to fly. It's gonna make a lot of noise, fuck up everything in it's uncontrollable path, and basically take a big shit on the runway.

Dadd @ 5/2/2016 16:05

Primate must be bored as hell with nothing to do at work to be arguing with Vladypoohbear

Yeah I normally don't argue politics with anyone because I'm afraid I might find out they are party acolytes and never be able to respect them again.

vladykins @ 5/2/2016 16:04

Primate @ 5/2/2016 16:53 vladykins @ 5/2/2016 15:13 Primate @ 5/2/2016 15:45 All this brings me back to my original point. Sanders is offering ideals, not workable solutions. He may as well be running on the Faerie dust and Unicorn sperm platform. The same was said about the New Deal, as well as many of Roosevelt's programs. ;) Wait...Are you counting those as successes? Hell yeahs. Not to mention the infrastructure programs built off of that. We need to focus on infrastructure. Maybe painting with a hammer is a good idea.

You should have led with that, I wouldn't have bothered.

I'm also really disappointed that the first post in this thread wasn't the single word "indeterminate"

Primate @ 5/2/2016 17:44

Dadd @ 5/2/2016 16:05 Primate must be bored as hell with nothing to do at work to be arguing with Vladypoohbear Yeah I normally don't argue politics with anyone because I'm afraid I might find out they are party acolytes and never be able to respect them again.

You skipped in late and missed my "liberaltarian" description. I'm probably a Lincoln Republican, which is nothing like a current Republican. ;)

Primate @ 5/2/2016 17:45

You should have led with that, I wouldn't have bothered.

You don't want to see the condition of the bridges I deal with daily. I'm just waiting for them to collapse.

This article makes a lot of the points that are salient to why Sanders has many supporters and addresses many of the arguments made already (like Obama's change, the difficulty of dealing with a Rep Congress, changing the whole economy, etc.)

Ari @ 5/2/2016 17:55

Did you read my post about Denmark Primate? Minimum wage workers are paying 24% income tax, leaving roughly 1000 dollars per month to spend on other stuff. That while getting free education, free healthcare, a great transportation system and a very efficient e-government. Do you think that is too much taxation? Why cant the US achieve something similar?

Denmark has lower corporate taxes and more economic freedom to keep those companies at bay and doesn't have a huge military to protect its interests, sucks to be a world hegemony i know. Also it doesn't help that country doesn't have a homogenous population. Trying to bring Scandinavian socialism to America is like teaching dog tricks to a horse. Technically you could get the same stuff in the US but you have to join the military with the nasty risk of getting shot.

Korru @ 5/2/2016 16:47

Ari @ 5/2/2016 17:55 Did you read my post about Denmark Primate? Minimum wage workers are paying 24% income tax, leaving roughly 1000 dollars per month to spend on other stuff. That while getting free education, free healthcare, a great transportation system and a very efficient e-government. Do you think that is too much taxation? Why cant the US achieve something similar? Denmark has lower corporate taxes and more economic freedom to keep those companies at bay and doesn't have a huge military to protect its interests, sucks to be a world hegemony i know. Also it doesn't help that country doesn't have a homogenous population. Trying to bring Scandinavian socialism to America is like teaching dog tricks to a horse. Technically you could get the same stuff in the US but you have to join the military with the nasty risk of getting shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LVzuFDcHy8

vladykins @ 5/2/2016 17:08

Primate @ 5/2/2016 17:44 Dadd @ 5/2/2016 16:05 Primate must be bored as hell with nothing to do at work to be arguing with Vladypoohbear Yeah I normally don't argue politics with anyone because I'm afraid I might find out they are party acolytes and never be able to respect them again. You skipped in late and missed my "liberaltarian" description. I'm probably a Lincoln Republican, which is nothing like a current Republican. ;)

I wasn't talking about you. I know you do your own thinking.

Primate @ 5/2/2016 20:52

vladykins @ 5/2/2016 17:08 Primate @ 5/2/2016 17:44 Dadd @ 5/2/2016 16:05 Primate must be bored as hell with nothing to do at work to be arguing with Vladypoohbear Yeah I normally don't argue politics with anyone because I'm afraid I might find out they are party acolytes and never be able to respect them again. You skipped in late and missed my "liberaltarian" description. I'm probably a Lincoln Republican, which is nothing like a current Republican. ;) I wasn't talking about you. I know you do your own thinking.

You are also extremely intelligent for a hipster.

Primate @ 5/2/2016 21:52

vladykins @ 5/2/2016 17:08 Primate @ 5/2/2016 17:44 Dadd @ 5/2/2016 16:05 Primate must be bored as hell with nothing to do at work to be arguing with Vladypoohbear Yeah I normally don't argue politics with anyone because I'm afraid I might find out they are party acolytes and never be able to respect them again. You skipped in late and missed my "liberaltarian" description. I'm probably a Lincoln Republican, which is nothing like a current Republican. ;) I wasn't talking about you. I know you do your own thinking.

And how do you do your own thinking with your head up your ass?