Ari @ 19/7/2017 0:18

Curtis @ 18/7/2017 18:30 Ariel my pal Hello, I now just come here to make fun of the US :)

Ah, the world's favorite pastime.

of the nominees, only trump could've beaten hillary and only hillary could've lost to trump.

and that's an objective analysis because i flipped a switch and ding! examined things from an observational position, rather than interjecting my own feelings

Igor @ 18/7/2017 12:24

Maddie @ 18/7/2017 12:45 Igor @ 18/7/2017 10:41 Ari @ 18/7/2017 7:22 Mercator @ 14/7/2017 23:56 I'd vote for Dolph Lundgren if he could run. Lundgren is Swedish though. 'Merica aint gonna be sipping that communist KoolAid thats why Bernie would have lost, they would have just called him a communist/socialist a bunch of times and Americans would get confused and spooked. BUT MUH MONEY I actually don't agree with this. I think his campaign would have reached out to white, blue collar workers in the right way and tucked the whole "socialism" thing under the rug a bit. He's well respected by people across the political spectrum in Vermont, I think in part due to his independent status. I strongly believe Bernie would have been able to connect with the voters that Trump was able to reach but Hillary totally overlooked. Not saying he would have won necessarily, but I don't think the socialism bit would have been as big an issue as one might think. Bernie is honestly has to place some burden on himself for Hillary's loss. He divided the democratic voting base. Hell he discouraged a good amount of people from voting at all that were sipping his Kool Aid. Even when he got behind Hillary it was way too late, some people were salty about that shit. Nah, those same rednecks are the people that are afraid of socialism and worried about their money funding people on welfare. Those damn liberals just want free shit, amirite? He polled terrible with minorities (latinos/blacks) and that's a huge part of the demographic. Even with women he continued to make himself look like a douche. And you think those people care about free college? You're appealing to literally the smallest section of people, hell even most older democrats won't give a shit. You're more shitting on the working class people/tradesmen showing that you rather help out the top people and what you're doing really doesn't matter. Trump would have made Bernie Sanders look like a hippie bum that wants the government to pay for everything. The Trump campaign punched hard, and what they had on Hillary compared to Bernie is nothing. They pretty much just attacked her on her emails/superpredator/corruption thing. Sanders never had to take any criticisms. He fucking went to Nicaragua in 1985 and has an interview of him pretty much praising communism/sandinistas, that alone would destroy him. Also the guy is just a terrible debater, his policies were weak/unclear and Trump would have destroyed him like a rabid dog.

lolitist

Bernie was full of shit, and a poor salesman.

Hillary and Trump were straight up criminals. With candidates that bad, I was legitimately shocked that so few went third party or unaffiliated.

Igor @ 18/7/2017 17:17

vladykins @ 18/7/2017 14:24 Disagree. People had already made up their minds on Hillary and the election showed that is exactly what happened. The final vote had her lose to Trump very similar to how she polled versus Trump at the beginning of the year (the same time when Bernie's polling showed him handily defeating Trump). Outside of a group of idiots, a lot of folks did not want to vote for Trump. About 2/3s of his voters specifically said they weren't voting for Trump but against Hillary. What do you disagree with? You don't think Bernie negatively impacted Hillary's chances of getting elected at all? To be fair, some is on the Hillary voters for coining the term Bernie-bros and alienating a shit ton of their voters. You realize Bernie had no negative attack ads on him during primaries? But why are you talking about Hillary here? I'm aware why she lost and don't disagree with this. You're vastly underestimating the amount of fucksocialism votes there are.

So what you are saying is that it is Bernie's fault because he ran against Hillary and that Dems should only have people running who agree with all the other candidates running and never disagree with their positions.

How the hell did Obama win with all the bashing Hillary did on him during the 2008 election? It's amazing he even survived it. And before you say "That's different" you need to go back and look at the 2008 Dem primary season, because it was pretty brutal and faaaaar more divisive than anything Bernie did in 2016. Because that's how primaries work. Look at the nastiness that happened on the Republican side in 2016- how did Trump survive any of that to win? Hillary only had one guy "bashing" her, while Trump had a ton, some of whom wouldn't even endorse him at the Convention (like Ted Cruz).

Again- Hillary was a weak candidate. Her weakness was showing early in 2016 and if Bernie dropped out of the race then she still would have lost. People's minds have been made up about Hillary for *YEARS*.

sexy chinese girl in food crisis @ 19/7/2017 7:46

and that's an objective analysis because i flipped a switch and ding! examined things from an observational position, rather than interjecting my own feelings

You definitely don't work in policy. We do this on a regular basis because we have to. Lords know there are plenty of policies I've analyzed for work that I personally think are totally shitty policies. ;)

vladykins @ 19/7/2017 10:37

Igor @ 18/7/2017 17:17 vladykins @ 18/7/2017 14:24 Disagree. People had already made up their minds on Hillary and the election showed that is exactly what happened. The final vote had her lose to Trump very similar to how she polled versus Trump at the beginning of the year (the same time when Bernie's polling showed him handily defeating Trump). Outside of a group of idiots, a lot of folks did not want to vote for Trump. About 2/3s of his voters specifically said they weren't voting for Trump but against Hillary. What do you disagree with? You don't think Bernie negatively impacted Hillary's chances of getting elected at all? To be fair, some is on the Hillary voters for coining the term Bernie-bros and alienating a shit ton of their voters. You realize Bernie had no negative attack ads on him during primaries? But why are you talking about Hillary here? I'm aware why she lost and don't disagree with this. You're vastly underestimating the amount of fucksocialism votes there are. So what you are saying is that it is Bernie's fault because he ran against Hillary and that Dems should only have people running who agree with all the other candidates running and never disagree with their positions. How the hell did Obama win with all the bashing Hillary did on him during the 2008 election? It's amazing he even survived it. And before you say "That's different" you need to go back and look at the 2008 Dem primary season, because it was pretty brutal and faaaaar more divisive than anything Bernie did in 2016. Because that's how primaries work. Look at the nastiness that happened on the Republican side in 2016- how did Trump survive any of that to win? Hillary only had one guy "bashing" her, while Trump had a ton, some of whom wouldn't even endorse him at the Convention (like Ted Cruz). Again- Hillary was a weak candidate. Her weakness was showing early in 2016 and if Bernie dropped out of the race then she still would have lost. People's minds have been made up about Hillary for *YEARS*.

Don't get me wrong, I supported Bernie whole heartedly. I think he was miles better than the other options, even though he was a little weak on some policies, overall I feel like he still had a lot of people's best interests at heart.

Obama's message was about unity rather than division. He was able to keep his campaign united and the Democratic party rather solidified. He can be faulted for not extending the network that he created and keeping it active. He had a huge grassroots campaign and network that he completely abandoned. Bernie's message was more divisive and extreme. If he couldn't have the nomination then nobody else deserved it. It was more of a scorched earth campaign. "Everyone else is to corrupt, so what's the point?" There's nothing wrong with the people attacking each other, like you said that happens all the time in politics. His campaign was more so attacking the whole party. I don't fault him for playing the game. But he has to take some responsibility for some of the vitriol of his followers. That doesn't just happen by itself, and he fed into it.

Igor didn't you not vote?

That's stuff "Bernie Bros" were spouting, not Bernie or his campaign.

It's like blaming Trump for shit /pol/ says.

Maddie @ 19/7/2017 14:01

Igor didn't you not vote?

Irrelevant to the convo.

Mercator @ 19/7/2017 14:03

That's stuff "Bernie Bros" were spouting, not Bernie or his campaign. It's like blaming Trump for shit /pol/ says.

LEL WAT. How can you not blame Trump for that?
His hateful rhetoric feeds shit like that.

Igor @ 19/7/2017 12:10

Mercator @ 19/7/2017 14:03 That's stuff "Bernie Bros" were spouting, not Bernie or his campaign. It's like blaming Trump for shit /pol/ says. LEL WAT. How can you not blame Trump for that? His hateful rhetoric feeds shit like that.

/pol/ was like that before Trump and will be like that after him.

I'd blame them more for getting Trump elected through memetics.

Igor @ 19/7/2017 13:54

Don't get me wrong, I supported Bernie whole heartedly. I think he was miles better than the other options, even though he was a little weak on some policies, overall I feel like he still had a lot of people's best interests at heart. Obama's message was about unity rather than division. He was able to keep his campaign united and the Democratic party rather solidified. He can be faulted for not extending the network that he created and keeping it active. He had a huge grassroots campaign and network that he completely abandoned. Bernie's message was more divisive and extreme. If he couldn't have the nomination then nobody else deserved it. It was more of a scorched earth campaign. "Everyone else is to corrupt, so what's the point?" There's nothing wrong with the people attacking each other, like you said that happens all the time in politics. His campaign was more so attacking the whole party. I don't fault him for playing the game. But he has to take some responsibility for some of the vitriol of his followers. That doesn't just happen by itself, and he fed into it.

Look at this:

Quote

Hillary Clinton will say anything to get elected.... The Washington Post says Clinton isn't telling the truth. She championed NAFTA, even though it has cost South Carolina thousands of jobs. And worst of all, it was Hillary Clinton who voted for George Bush's war in Iraq. Hillary Clinton. She'll say anything and change nothing. It's time to turn the page.

I can't believe Bernie would say such terrible things!

Oh wait, this is from Obama's campaign in South Carolina.

And there was all kinds of feuding and fun that went on. Here's some highlights:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/01/28/the-10-nastiest-moments-of-the-obama-hillary-primary-video/?utm_term=.954ff06f37cf

Obama spoke about unity... but mainly after he was the shoe-in. But even after, the campaign staffers were still pretty nasty with each other:

http://www.npr.org/2016/06/09/480645291/bitter-rivals-to-allies-how-president-obama-evolved-on-hillary-clinton

It comes down to what I said earlier- Clinton failed because she was a weak candidate. People's minds were made up on her and she wasn't going to sway new people. Bernie running against her or endorsing her wasn't going to make one little change in how people voted. If Bernie dropped out in January 2016, Clinton still would have likely gotten the exact same election results, which were similar to her polling at the time versus Trump.

Clinton lost. We can blame Bernie or Bernie voters or BernieBros or the myriad other names Clinton-voters came up with for Bernie supporters (which served only to turn them off even more to their candidate). Or we can realize she was a weak candidate, understand why she was weak, and work to fix it. Blaming anyone but Clinton for the loss is a prescription for more losses.