Primate @ 28/11/2018 20:22

Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:15 There are definitely people in politics who are pro-money, that’s for sure, but not everyone. You are not listening to what I say. I'm sure that some people in office are genuine (not nearly enough of them, imo) but the parties are not. They have become unstoppable machines that sell bullshit and do it by any means necessary.

What do you mean by that? Who are the parties you’re referring to in this case? Like who are the physical embodiments of the parties that you’re describing?

Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:13

Primate @ 28/11/2018 20:11 Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:09 The fact that you think the political parties are extremes is lol I didn't say that. The parties are pro money. They have no real beliefs. Just things to sell. That’s definitely not true, but I certainly blame the media and the state of affairs in this country for making you believe that it is.

Personal experience of watching the same lies told successfully for multiple decades have shaped my opinion. Not the media.

Neither of the parties (not individuals) want any meaningful change to the system. I will agree with primate on that. The political system is too lucrative, and too many people have become dependent on the system. Just think of the sheer number of people whose employment is tied entirely to the political system - not talking about staff, aids, etc... - lobbyists, advertising/marketing, printing, hell social media

Timmah @ 28/11/2018 20:26

Neither of the parties (not individuals) want any meaningful change to the system. I will agree with primate on that. The political system is too lucrative, and too many people have become dependent on the system. Just think of the sheer number of people whose employment is tied entirely to the political system - not talking about staff, aids, etc... - lobbyists, advertising/marketing, printing, hell social media

I work at a lobbying firm and worked on the Hill previously.

Mads @ 28/11/2018 19:27

Timmah @ 28/11/2018 20:26 Neither of the parties (not individuals) want any meaningful change to the system. I will agree with primate on that. The political system is too lucrative, and too many people have become dependent on the system. Just think of the sheer number of people whose employment is tied entirely to the political system - not talking about staff, aids, etc... - lobbyists, advertising/marketing, printing, hell social media I work at a lobbying firm and worked on the Hill previously.

I’m not sure what your point is? You personally may want certain changes, but that doesn’t mean your firm wants to go out of business. Your firm depends on the current structure of the political system to make money and employee people. Politics is big business.

Timmah @ 28/11/2018 20:31

Mads @ 28/11/2018 19:27 Timmah @ 28/11/2018 20:26 Neither of the parties (not individuals) want any meaningful change to the system. I will agree with primate on that. The political system is too lucrative, and too many people have become dependent on the system. Just think of the sheer number of people whose employment is tied entirely to the political system - not talking about staff, aids, etc... - lobbyists, advertising/marketing, printing, hell social media I work at a lobbying firm and worked on the Hill previously. I’m not sure what your point is? You personally may want certain changes, but that doesn’t mean your firm wants to go out of business. Your firm depends on the current structure of the political system to make money and employee people. Politics is big business.

I didn’t finish my post (in a Lyft and hit send by mistake). I was going to say I’ve met a lot of people, at least Democratic lobbyists, who want to see money’s role in politics change and PACs go away. But they also know as long as money has influence, you have to fight fire with fire.

Thanks for explaining the industry I work in to me, though. I appreciated it as much as I’m sure Buffy enjoyed having the House of Representatives explained to her.

Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:24

Primate @ 28/11/2018 20:22 Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:15 There are definitely people in politics who are pro-money, that’s for sure, but not everyone. You are not listening to what I say. I'm sure that some people in office are genuine (not nearly enough of them, imo) but the parties are not. They have become unstoppable machines that sell bullshit and do it by any means necessary. What do you mean by that? Who are the parties you’re referring to in this case? Like who are the physical embodiments of the parties that you’re describing?

The parties are not just the hordes of gullible followers. They aren't just the politicians or their armies of tiny kingmakers. They aren't just the special interest groups and pacs who sway politicians through questionable means. They are the whole thing put together to back scumbags like Trump or Clinton every 4 years. They talk themselves into being o.k. with what campaign tactics have become. Embrace the hate for those who disagree with them, buy into a party line in spite of evidence to the contrary, etc... It all adds up to the machines we have today.

Both parties combine to form a government that represents a few, manipulates a bunch, and alienates the rest of us.

Primate @ 28/11/2018 20:36

Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:24 Primate @ 28/11/2018 20:22 Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:15 There are definitely people in politics who are pro-money, that’s for sure, but not everyone. You are not listening to what I say. I'm sure that some people in office are genuine (not nearly enough of them, imo) but the parties are not. They have become unstoppable machines that sell bullshit and do it by any means necessary. What do you mean by that? Who are the parties you’re referring to in this case? Like who are the physical embodiments of the parties that you’re describing? The parties are not just the hordes of gullible followers. They aren't just the politicians or their armies of tiny kingmakers. They aren't just the special interest groups and pacs who sway politicians through questionable means. They are the whole thing put together to back scumbags like Trump or Clinton every 4 years. They talk themselves into being o.k. with what campaign tactics have become. Embrace the hate for those who disagree with them, buy into a party line in spite of evidence to the contrary, etc... It all adds up to the machines we have today. Both parties combine to form a government that represents a few, manipulates a bunch, and alienates the rest of us.

Who is “they” though? You still aren’t answering my question.

Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:35

Timmah @ 28/11/2018 20:31 Mads @ 28/11/2018 19:27 Timmah @ 28/11/2018 20:26 Neither of the parties (not individuals) want any meaningful change to the system. I will agree with primate on that. The political system is too lucrative, and too many people have become dependent on the system. Just think of the sheer number of people whose employment is tied entirely to the political system - not talking about staff, aids, etc... - lobbyists, advertising/marketing, printing, hell social media I work at a lobbying firm and worked on the Hill previously. I’m not sure what your point is? You personally may want certain changes, but that doesn’t mean your firm wants to go out of business. Your firm depends on the current structure of the political system to make money and employee people. Politics is big business. I didn’t finish my post (in a Lyft and hit send by mistake). I was going to say I’ve met a lot of people, at least Democratic lobbyists, who want to see money’s roll in politics change and PACs go away. But they also know as long as money has influence, you have to fight fire with fire. Thanks for explaining the industry I work in to me, though. I appreciated as much as I’m sure Buffy enjoyed having the House of Representatives explained to her.

You belive these people really want change while they are participating and profitting?

I don’t always get too involved in these discussion. But, I do want to say this:

I may get heated at times about my opinions and that may show through In the way i present an argument. I really don’t mean to offend in my arguments. At the end of the day, I really do appreciate that many many people hold different viewpoints and opinions than I do. And I appreciate the opportunity to hear those opinions and even debate them from time to time. Hell, listening to other viewpoints is a great way to learn and grow, and helps in the development of my own opinions.

Specifically in this forum, I appreciate that probably most people here probably don’t share my opinions and views. That’s a great opportunity for me, personally, to gain perspective I might not otherwise get.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Timmah @ 28/11/2018 12:44

JJ is clearly pro-city, and fuck everyone else.

I'm clearly for the majority of the country making the decisions, electing their representatives. It has nothing to do with "pro-city and fuck everyone else." That's just such an illogical conclusion to draw from what I've said.

Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:38

Primate @ 28/11/2018 20:36 Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:24 Primate @ 28/11/2018 20:22 Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:15 There are definitely people in politics who are pro-money, that’s for sure, but not everyone. You are not listening to what I say. I'm sure that some people in office are genuine (not nearly enough of them, imo) but the parties are not. They have become unstoppable machines that sell bullshit and do it by any means necessary. What do you mean by that? Who are the parties you’re referring to in this case? Like who are the physical embodiments of the parties that you’re describing? The parties are not just the hordes of gullible followers. They aren't just the politicians or their armies of tiny kingmakers. They aren't just the special interest groups and pacs who sway politicians through questionable means. They are the whole thing put together to back scumbags like Trump or Clinton every 4 years. They talk themselves into being o.k. with what campaign tactics have become. Embrace the hate for those who disagree with them, buy into a party line in spite of evidence to the contrary, etc... It all adds up to the machines we have today. Both parties combine to form a government that represents a few, manipulates a bunch, and alienates the rest of us. Who is “they” though? You still aren’t answering my question.

I explained it the best I could. Everyone who is profiting from the system for starters, and those who are manipulated to follow them.

Timmah @ 28/11/2018 12:44

JJ is clearly pro-city, and fuck everyone else.

Timmah @ 28/11/2018 12:42

JJ @ 28/11/2018 12:00 Timmah @ 28/11/2018 11:26 JJ @ 22/11/2018 13:47 Timmah @ 14/11/2018 10:54 JJ @ 13/11/2018 22:21 Timmah @ 13/11/2018 16:40 Because it is the United States of America, not the United States of California and New York. I'm referring to population but, thanks. :) I know. My response was sarcastic, but each State has 2 Senators because the system is designed for each State to be represented equally, at least on some level. Otherwise, the large States would have full control of everything all of the time. That's not the way our system was designed. It may have been a good idea at one time but I just don't think it is, anymore. The system needs to change. So in other words, you believe that much of America should not have any say in how things are run? In other words, I think it should be based on population. If one state has 39 million people and one state has 800K people, they should not each have two senators. It's very lopsided. What you are describing is the House of Representatives. If the Senate also worked that way, what would be the point in having the Senate? What you are saying is that smaller states with lower population should have no say in how things work. You may not understand that this is what you are saying, but it is what you are saying.

I know what the House of Representatives is, thank you. There is a definite reason and need for the people to be represented equally and just because the Senate was created that way doesn't mean it needs to stay that way. Congress could use an overhaul, just like the stupid and outdated electoral college system we have.

Mads @ 28/11/2018 18:09

The fact that you think the political parties are extremes is lol

I think the confusion here comes from the fact that Merc used the word leftists. I associate that word with the extremes.

Primate @ 28/11/2018 18:46

JJ @ 28/11/2018 11:18 Primate @ 28/11/2018 12:13 The reason it is set up that way is so that the less populous states have a say in a government that effects them. It is set up to give them a voice on things that uniquely impact them. Even in today's climate it's necessary that these regions have an actual voice. I mean 81% of the population lives in urban areas. Should their vote carry 4 times the weight on issues that they know nothing about. 81% of the population should be able to decide what happens in the country. It should be by popular vote. Luckily our founding fathers disagreed, or the United States wouldn't exist.

Please don't be one of those - our founding fathers also had slaves.