I'll be back in 10 hours....don't do anything stupid

Kiwi @ 17/2/2013 9:38

Lol agree with Drr again. Also I find this a tad scummy from Rob: Quote I'm voting for Greenday again, because, again, I believe him to be the most scummy. If he turns out to be scum, I'm going to assume you're town. If he turns out to be town, then I'm probably going to assume it's you or Kiwi. I don't really understand how you reached the conclusion if Greenday is town then me/Rose = scum. It sounds like perhaps you know Greenday is Town and want a convenient next target. And while you say Rose is fighting hard - she kind of is too - you are as well to get this Greenday thing going.

I reached that conclusion because it makes sense that someone on the Panda train was scum. Based on everything that's been said in this thread, you and Drr are the most likely candidates. I make my evaluations based on what a lot of people are saying, because I have a lot less experience with a lot of you.

And, seriously? Drr says that me voting Greenday was me not trying hard, and you say I'm trying too hard. Far as I'm concerned, that means I'm trying just the right amount. I think he's scum, and I'm still voting for him. I'm almost 100% certain that I'm right about this, based on everything I know about Greenday. But I'm also willing to admit that I might be wrong. If it sounds scummy to have a contingency plan in case I'm wrong, and to openly admit that in the presence of everybody, well... Sorry? I don't know what to say about that.

Dr. Fröken Drrr @ 17/2/2013 8:06

Rob @ 17/2/2013 7:29 I voted for the person I most genuinely believed to be scum: Greenday. In fact, I was one of the first to vote for him, which means I helped start a different lynch train, and I also said that I thought voting for Panda was the wrong idea, which as far as I know is the definition of doing something to stop it. Sure, I didn't scream it from the rooftops, but that's because I didn't know for certain that he wasn't scum, and I didn't fancy the idea of being left holding the bag if he was. That isn't even remotely the definition of trying to stop it. Saying "eh I think that's not such a good idea guys" then sitting back and watching is just setting yourself up to say "I told you so."

I like how you first accuse me of not getting involved with any trains, then when I point out that I did, it suddenly becomes a case of "Rob just sat back to not involve himself." Yes, I wasn't demanding or forceful about my opinion. As I said, I didn't want to stick my neck out. Why? Because that's what I'm doing now. And notice how well it's going for me? I've come to accept that I am not good at telling people tactfully that I believe that they are wrong. Whenever I start telling people that I believe that they're voting incorrectly, and/or stupidly, people start wanting to lynch me. Two cases in point: This thread. You going after me in Lab 2.5.

If I had stringently insisted that Panda was innocent, and you guys had gone and lynched him anyway, it would be incredibly easy for the rumour to float around that I was scum and tried to save an innocent townie in order to establish deniability for myself, as part of some grand massive scheme I have.

Call me crazy, but I'm smart enough to realize that every time I speak up, I get targetted, usually by YOU, and I wasn't particularly thrilled about that possibility. I didn't fight hard because I didn't see the point. If I fought hard to save a townie, I would give the mafia more reason to target me. If I fought hard to save a mafia, I would be signing my own death warrant.

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If I fought hard to save a townie, I would give the mafia more reason to target me. If I fought hard to save a mafia, I would be signing my own death warrant.

It definitely is not as simple as that. I don't see why the mafia would target someone who saved a townie once... Maybe if you kept doing it. Your entire reason for not saving Panda, who you apparently was sure was innocent, was that Rose would target you the next day.

Boc @ 16/2/2013 22:42

Oh and the Jeff survival IS pretty fishy since there's no way a doctor would protect him last night after making one whole post on D1. But considering there was only one kill there's only 3 likely scenarios: he's BP, the mafia got blocked and Jeff was hit by vig or SK, or Jeff is SK and got hit by mafia. So 2 of the 3 paint him as scum, but obviously it's not enough to go on yet. Definitely something to keep in mind though

My mafia ignorance will probably show with this question, but why is 2/3 not enough to go on? Isn't that in a way more to go on than we have on anyone else at this point?

^ Stop playing innocent you obvious scum

Rob, the thing is, the point of mafia is to argue a case. If you think a mistake is being made, you have to make it known. You can't just sit back and shake your head and go "sigh, failtown again. I said I disagreed for a few minutes. I tired. I really really tried. But these foolish townies... they just never listen to me."

If someone thinks its suspicious or scummy, then so what? If you aren't scum and you know you aren't scum then fight for your innocence when that happens and find the real scum. We get death flips here, and while town isn't always right, holding back and just casually going "oh I think this is a bad plan. Not going to elaborate on it really, just thought you all should know. Its a bad plan," harms our cause more than it helps.

I was refering to Curtis with the statement about not joining any trains. I remember you voted for Greenday due to jewish (or maybe because he was being overly defensive about getting any votes).

But the thing is making a case and arguing it out is what town SHOULD do. The quiet ones aren't necessarily scum and ultimately the quiet ones survive longer, but this isn't about survival for us. This is about taking out the non-town and assuming the risk that that entails. Being vocal will get you noticed more than the grims who only post when they need to seem like they've made a post that day, but ultimately its arguing it out and discussing that makes the difference. Not arguing because someone will argue back is ridiculous. Also, calm down with the metagaming a bit!

Rant aside, WHY do you think that Greenday is definitely scum? Yesterday you said it was because it was a joke vote based on a screenshot you found on futurama that implied bots are jewish. Today he's scum. If you have a case for greenday then make the case.

Natalie @ 17/2/2013 13:44

Boc @ 16/2/2013 22:42 Oh and the Jeff survival IS pretty fishy since there's no way a doctor would protect him last night after making one whole post on D1. But considering there was only one kill there's only 3 likely scenarios: he's BP, the mafia got blocked and Jeff was hit by vig or SK, or Jeff is SK and got hit by mafia. So 2 of the 3 paint him as scum, but obviously it's not enough to go on yet. Definitely something to keep in mind though My mafia ignorance will probably show with this question, but why is 2/3 not enough to go on? Isn't that in a way more to go on than we have on anyone else at this point?

Its because option 1 is he is the mafia don and cannot be killed at night. That's pretty close to a universal role and I don't think we have ever had a game without that. However, there was only one attack last night, and the potential for the mafia's kills to be blocked by a town roleblocker is quite low, especially night one. And I think we're past the point where anyone thinks that mafia attacking their BP don on day 1 is a clever gambit.

Option 2 is that he is a serial killer and cannot be killed at night. The odds for this are a bit higher than don, though it would mean that if he was, he was both attacked and blocked last night (serial killers generally don't/can't forgo a kill).

Option 3 is that he is town BP or otherwise a protected town. That would mean the mafia went for a target they thought would be more low key (to keep all the more vocal players fighting after the near-tie and Panda-is-town clusterfuck) and hit bulletproof/protected. We know Jeff was attacked, and we know that that was the only attack to make it to the attempt stage (any others either didn't happen or were blocked), it seems likeliest that he was the mafia target.

It doesn't prove anything either way, but while there are 3 possible reasons he could have survived, the lower amount of kills makes his survival somewhat less suspicious than if he survived a bloodbath.

Its worth keeping an eye on but if he's the slightly more likely town variation of the 3 possibilities, he's valuable. So it isn't worth killing him to clear up the confusion.

I would feel much more comfortable though if he made a post that wasn't terrible

Stupid_Panda: Dylan, Boc, Drr, Greenday, Malion, Kiwi (6/11)

Im torn between voting DR again and Malion

Reasons:

Dr: The sudden turn on Panda could have been a mafia trick. Who knows? I guess the guys who

Malion:

"Well Jeff survived, quite random. Just one kill as well.
Likely a scum kill, so at the same time some caution to be had at lynching time.

Also Panda was town, which was unfortunate. I don't really have more to go on at the moment. I'm sure more info is to be gleaned from current events though."

Something about this post seems like scum to me. "Likely a scum kill" "unfortunate that Panda was town". Something is iffy about it me thinks

Rest of the train:

Im not sold on Greenday but I guess I could see the argument against him. Plus he was one of the guys who got on the Panda train

Dunno if Mafia Kiwi would go on that train that late knowing Panda was town so out of the people who lynched Panda Im least sure of him being mafia.

Dylan and Boc im not sure about.

oh i forgot

#lynch Malion

Rob @ 17/2/2013 8:29

Dr. Fröken Drrr @ 17/2/2013 3:39 But you didn't do anything to stop it yesterday. You just didn't get involved on any trains so you could have the high ground today to argue about what all those other people. I voted for the person I most genuinely believed to be scum: Greenday. In fact, I was one of the first to vote for him, which means I helped start a different lynch train

omglol Rob that's not so impressive when your "reason" for lynching me yesterday was the fact that I had a robot avatar that I've had since I joined this place.

And is your only reason that I'm scum the fact that I jumped on a train on day 1? News to me that jumping on a train on the day that matters the least is the biggest scum alarm.

Leaffan20 @ 17/2/2013 1:30

My attempted assassination was probably mafia. Also Dylan surviving an attack isn't always fishy.

This seems pretty scummy to me tbh. Jeff has had two posts all game: one to say "hi" and this to say "gee guys I think I got attacked by mafia!"

Jeff since you're here perhaps you can offer your thoughts!

Greenday @ 17/2/2013 15:54

Rob @ 17/2/2013 8:29 Dr. Fröken Drrr @ 17/2/2013 3:39 But you didn't do anything to stop it yesterday. You just didn't get involved on any trains so you could have the high ground today to argue about what all those other people. I voted for the person I most genuinely believed to be scum: Greenday. In fact, I was one of the first to vote for him, which means I helped start a different lynch train omglol Rob that's not so impressive when your "reason" for lynching me yesterday was the fact that I had a robot avatar that I've had since I joined this place.

No, my reason for lynching you yesterday was that I thought you were scum. My reason for lynching you today is that I know that you're scum. This may shock you, but occasionally I disguise my true motive in doing things if I feel like it's in the best interests of the town.

Dr. Fröken Drrr @ 17/2/2013 14:47

Rob, the thing is, the point of mafia is to argue a case. If you think a mistake is being made, you have to make it known. You can't just sit back and shake your head and go "sigh, failtown again. I said I disagreed for a few minutes. I tired. I really really tried. But these foolish townies... they just never listen to me." If someone thinks its suspicious or scummy, then so what? If you aren't scum and you know you aren't scum then fight for your innocence when that happens and find the real scum. We get death flips here, and while town isn't always right, holding back and just casually going "oh I think this is a bad plan. Not going to elaborate on it really, just thought you all should know. Its a bad plan," harms our cause more than it helps.

Noted. Prepare for me to argue my case.

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Being vocal will get you noticed more than the grims who only post when they need to seem like they've made a post that day, but ultimately its arguing it out and discussing that makes the difference. Not arguing because someone will argue back is ridiculous. Also, calm down with the metagaming a bit!

With all due respect, not a chance. I metagame because I find that it generally works quite well for me. You asked me to defend my reasons, and I did.

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Rant aside, WHY do you think that Greenday is definitely scum? Yesterday you said it was because it was a joke vote based on a screenshot you found on futurama that implied bots are jewish. Today he's scum. If you have a case for greenday then make the case.

Okay, well, then I'll just come right out in the open. I wanted to hide this, because, let's face it, I thought that keeping this sort of thing out of the limelight for longer than round two was *probably* in the town's best interest, but because of something I discovered by using my role, I am 100% more confident today that Greenday is scum than I was yesterday, and I can empirically say that he is a mafia member. If I'm wrong, you guys can go right ahead and lynch me tomorrow.

i agree with boc the heart shaped monkey

Wait, so you're claiming on day 2?