-dr @ 28/8/2016 2:27

This means Wikey Merc and Brian cannot be McCree Curtis, Odd, Vladdy, and I can all be McCree and still be town. I am not McCree. I am better than a shitty cowboy. The fact that McCree apparently attacked Vern means McCree is probably scum, but people were coming around on him possibly being scummy so it's still POSSIBLE he was town.

In game McCree can shoot the entire enemy team with his ult (6 people, 6 shooter), Flavor says BANG 4 times so I'm guessing he shot 4 people, if I had 4 bullets I'd probably shoot Vernon just because I could (:

He also has a flashbang which stuns, so a roleblock or a silence. Pretty sure McCree is scum.


Obligatory McCree meme:

Merc, what hero do you think would fit the doublevoter?

And, without giving too much away, could you speculate on what their other abilities might be, and whether those abilities might fit scum or town?

Mislynching a doublevoter would be pretty terrible. If Oddilus is town he is invaluable.

Wikey @ 28/8/2016 5:42

And then there is Helios. His strong start followed by him mellowing considerably reminds me of Silas from ATTWS

Helios is my biggest suspect today tbh.

From the start, his focus has been on mechanics and calling people out on the way they're playing. He's not SCUMHUNTING. All the agression is zeroing in on people who've said something stupid, not something scummy.

I REALLY didn't like his thing with Christian that spanned a few rounds. I'll try to dig it up, but it's an example of Helios targeting people to vote because they weren't playing or behaving the way he wants, rather than because he found the behavior scummy. Helios has always been picky about playstyles and an agressive player, but he's also always been a case builder when he's town. He usually puts those huge obnoxious multiquotes to good use. He hasn't though.

He's hunted down and exposed the double voter. He's discussed the town vote canceler after they flipped. His focus has been on picking apart mechanics and not on actually looking at or for scummy behavior.

Wikey did you get the vote cancel at the same time as the daykill notice?

Wikey @ 28/8/2016 2:48

Merc, what hero do you think would fit the doublevoter? And, without giving too much away, could you speculate on what their other abilities might be, and whether those abilities might fit scum or town?

Well an argument for scum not having killed him yet is that they don't know what hero he is (: which means none of them or few are scum if he's town
Not sure if I should say who he is, but no his abilities don't really fit scum I think.

Out of the players alive who play Overwatch (that I remember, please update if you can):

1. Curtis
7. Oddilus
10. itsbrianyay
20. Mercator


4. Wikey
8. Helios
12. thisisbad
14. Dadd
15. dr
16. Timmah
18. Vladykins
22. im317

Also since I had it in my sheet here are everyone's final votes at the end of each day.



Kinda hard to read anything from it

I'm going to try to get some sleep in soon so instead of waiting for Wikey's answer I'll just get into this point I was going to make anyway:

RE: Doublevoters, Vote Cancelers, and Vote Thiefs:
(or: I criticize Helios for focusing on mechanics then theorize about the exact same ones)
I don't think there is a vote thief. This keeps getting confused!

We know that Oddilus's votes count twice. Thanks to Helios hunting down the vote count patterns on D1 that Oddilus's ability seems to be passive and happens for every vote he casts.

We know that Lamps, with the flavor of blocking people's ways with his ice thing, was able to take away people's votes for the day. We can assume that the following people had their votes stolen from him:
D1: Christian
D2: Angi
D3: Helios

Then there is the conflict. This is the ONLY conflicting vote cancelation. There are no other voting loss claims besides those above and these two below:

D4: Wikey, Thisisbad

however, TIB's claim matches Lamps' role, while Wikey was permitted to resubmit a vote.

That seems to imply that Wikey's vote being cancelled was a side effect of the daykill. It'd make sense. 250 is enough to kill most players. It's higher than the max HP of a lot of players, and a significant amount for a lot of higher HP characters too. If a person was daykilled, their vote would cease to count, so the attack automatically knocking the vote off the lynch list if you survive makes some sense.

So I think the loss of Wikey's vote was more likely just a consequence of his daykill attempt, not a vote thief. There probably isn't one.

As for whether Odd could be a scum doublevoter, I don't think so. USUALLY that role as scum is balanced differently, being submitted seperately usually and in secret. Then the secret vote usually can't be moved. I feel like without that, with an automatic double on every vote he casts, the mafia needs one less townie dead for a majority. It could be balanced with mafia having lower than normal numbers, but given the way votes have extra value in this game, and town mislynches give scum additional power, it feels OP as a scum role.

Plus, Odd reads as town to me otherwise. So I don't think he's scum. At the very least, I don't feel comfortable with him being today's lynch when today is such a major deciding day.

One more thought before I go:

I checked back to see if Dylan was ever mentioned during D1. Dadd brought him up as giving him a weird vibe. On the one hand I don't think scum would be calling attention like that to their lurkingest teammates. On the other, Dylan had like 1 or 2 posts max when he said that. Kinda weird to already be getting a vibe.

My one redeeming moment this game was saving Rose last night

##Unlynch
##Lynch Helios

Could definitely get behind a Dadd lynch too

Also, yeah, I got the notifications at the same time. It does seem so obvious now that the vote cancelling was tacked on to the day kill.

I've got to go and I won't be back until later tonight. There is a good chance I'll miss the deadline. I'm gonna leave my vote on Helios, but yeah, I think him or Dadd would make good choices.

Good luck guys!

-dr @ 28/8/2016 5:54

Wikey @ 28/8/2016 5:42 And then there is Helios. His strong start followed by him mellowing considerably reminds me of Silas from ATTWS Helios is my biggest suspect today tbh. From the start, his focus has been on mechanics and calling people out on the way they're playing. He's not SCUMHUNTING. All the agression is zeroing in on people who've said something stupid, not something scummy. I REALLY didn't like his thing with Christian that spanned a few rounds. I'll try to dig it up, but it's an example of Helios targeting people to vote because they weren't playing or behaving the way he wants, rather than because he found the behavior scummy. Helios has always been picky about playstyles and an agressive player, but he's also always been a case builder when he's town. He usually puts those huge obnoxious multiquotes to good use. He hasn't though. He's hunted down and exposed the double voter. He's discussed the town vote canceler after they flipped. His focus has been on picking apart mechanics and not on actually looking at or for scummy behavior.

In my world, stupid = scummy, Rose. You know this. (:

In my experience, people who have said stupid shit more often that not are scumslipping. Of course, this game started off with so many people saying so many stupid things, I felt as if I needed to reach through the screen and slap people! It's probably because I don't know half the people in this game, and apparently, this the way they ALWAYS play, according to what I've picked up from you guys. So, despite the fact that I've thought the things I were reading to be terrible posts, I realized that maybe I need to back off just a bit and, as you say, do some scumhunting.

The problem with this game is that the added mechanics of ult points and the other Overwatch stuff does not lend themselves to the way that I normally play the game. Scum is Scum, and Town is Town, but all this extra shit about "gotta get them ult points" and all that throws everything off. So many votes, actions, and discussions that would look terrible in any other game get to be "justified" in this one based on the whole ult point thing.

I have built my cases this game based on the actions of the person, not simple because they didn't play the way I wanted them to play:
--I have been after 317 because I believe exactly zero of his claim. Not for a moment do I believe he has been attacked every single night for the exact same amount of damage. It's that same damage part that I really do not buy. That implies the same person has attacked him every single night. Why, frankly, would someone do that? Especially with so many other people claiming to be hit. If 317 was a Townie, and he didn't die after the first couple of hits, AND so many other people claimed injured, why wouldn't 317's assailant switch over to one of those other people and get themselves a kill?
--My issue with Spin earlier in the game was based on the way he tried to manipulate the interpretation of the Sab lynch. He made it seem that everyone on that lynch was on it solely because of a "not Vern" reasoning, despite the fact that multiple people, including himself, said otherwise throughout that topic. I found the fact that he was seemingly ignoring all of the justification that some of the people had for him was pretty bad.
--With Christian, yeah, that was more about me not liking something he did moreso than anything else. I cannot stand when it seems like people simply want to do what I tell them to do in this game. People need to have their own damn brains and make their own decisions using their own deductions. Perhaps, I misinterpreted Christian's intentions with that post, but I called it the way I read it.
--On a related note, I didn't like the way Dadd seemed to be following Vern's moves yesterday. Vern made a post about me, Dadd immediately started parroting Vern and doing what Vern was doing (the proper term for this is "dickriding", but i'm trying to be calmer in this game! (: ) Hence me saying that when I flip Town, you guys should kill that guy.

Now, moving on to today. We started with 23 people. I would expect 6-7 Mafioso, based on that. One Mafioso has died. As such, there is probably 5 left. (if there were 6 left, the game would be over right now with a Mafia victory; if there are less than 5, this game started with less than 6, which is pretty unbalanced). As such, I suspect today is MyLo for us. Which means that we need to be fucking SMART about what we do today.

I don't think we've done anything smart so far lol

My reads have been terrible. I haven't posted a list but if I did it would be way off.

I think I'll vote dadd today just cause I haven't seen him much honestly.

##vote dadd

I definitely agree that we need to be smart today. I'm trying to bring up everything I can and every suspicion I have to discuss because the way things have been going is one person says/does something vaguely shady, and everyone else piles on. Claims this game aren't going to be enough to save anyone once they reach that point, so once a train takes off, it seems to stay there. And if you look at the lynches that have started, and the trains that have come close to succeeding, nearly all of them have begun with a nonsense random lynch or a lynch that the original voter didn't even believe in. Vern, Ahoda, Sabotaged, Herm, all off the top of my head first started with stupid/no reasons and all were leading for a time or successful. And all of them have been town.

That's why I want to discuss as much as possible today and get people talking.

You're pretty high on my suspects list. Even after everything you defended yourself with, you still have only given one suspect you seem to actually believe in, and it's one I tend to lean town on. However, I'm being very careful about actually casting a vote today.

Other thoughts:

Dadd is someone whose posts I want to go through later when I'm around more. Vladdy too, since a lot of people who he once voted for ended up on his town list eventually, and I didn't follow that evolution. Timmah has seemed pretty lurky/laid back, while he seems to be more aggressive as town. Brian's first few days were incredibly sketchy but he's started seeming slightly more town to me. Still, I'd like to hear more reads and thoughts from him and he's still pretty close to the scum end of the spectrum for me.