Nofo ☭ @ 1/1/2015 19:25

Also, that's not far from the truth, korr. They took her out of school too.

:crazy:

Shadow @ 1/1/2015 19:31

Moose @ 1/1/2015 19:28 http://lazerprincess.tumblr.com/post/106447705738/suicide-note This is Leelah's note that she queued to post on tumblr. She explains what her parents did and how she couldn't live the life she wanted. I'm not gonna point fingers and and call anyone bigoted, but what Leelah's parents did was awful and it left her so alone and depressed that she felt there wasn't a way out. If her parents had accepted her for who she was, this wouldn't have happened. still might have happened. they seemed really depressed about being in their own body, even saying that if they transitioned they would be a lonely woman. Because if the problem was solely the parents, why not run away? probably has a lot to do with believing that the clock was running out on the transition process

That's another reason why she felt so alone. She didn't have any role models in her life that she could speak to. There wasn't anyone else who had transitioned and was happy. I think that her parents supporting her would have helped her tremendously, even thought there is still that possibility that she still would have gone through with it anyway. There was a statistic that I saw that said only 4% of trans youth still attempt or commit suicide with family support.

Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:36

There was a statistic that I saw that said only 4% of trans youth still attempt or commit suicide with family support.

"with family support"

this sounds very scientific

A few thoughts:

1. To trivialize her death to a 16 year old not getting what she wanted is really unfair. This wasn't some brat who didn't get her starbucks one day. This was a likely a long, and lonely journey for her, and she took the one way out she saw. Do I think suicide is the answer? Of course not. But it's really sad she thought it was the only one. And it could have been prevented with the right support.

Also, to say that 16 year olds aren't old enough to make this decision is silly. I'm pretty sure at 16, most of us knew that we wanted to remain male or female for the rest of our lives. She knew too.

2. It's hard not to get passionate and soap-boxy about these issues because people's lives are lost. And it's sad. And these issues (race and gender identity) affect some members of our FE community daily. But at the same time, vilifying doesn't help. I like educating people, but vilifying their beliefs will not educate them. There are more productive ways of conversation than we're having.

Shadow @ 1/1/2015 19:31

Moose @ 1/1/2015 19:28 http://lazerprincess.tumblr.com/post/106447705738/suicide-note This is Leelah's note that she queued to post on tumblr. She explains what her parents did and how she couldn't live the life she wanted. I'm not gonna point fingers and and call anyone bigoted, but what Leelah's parents did was awful and it left her so alone and depressed that she felt there wasn't a way out. If her parents had accepted her for who she was, this wouldn't have happened. still might have happened. they seemed really depressed about being in their own body, even saying that if they transitioned they would be a lonely woman. Because if the problem was solely the parents, why not run away? probably has a lot to do with believing that the clock was running out on the transition process

I think there were a lot of things that factored into her taking her life. The parents not accepting her and isolating her from everyone were probably just the tip of the iceberg.

Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:55

But they were close minded Christian bigots. And yes, it was abuse. Her parents did everything they could from letting Leelah be herself and tried to make them who he parents wanted them to be. Leelah felt trapped in her own body and knew she was different since she was young. Her age should not invalidate her feelings because she wasn't legal. I knew since I was 13 that I wasn't straight. Is my sexuality invalidated because I was so young? I knew what I felt and Leelah knew what she felt. It was her life that her parents tried to control and make her feel that she wasn't a human being.

When i was a freshman in high school, i wanted to go out partying and drinking every weekend with my GF (who happened to be a hot senior). GUESS WHAT, my parents wouldnt let me.

I bitched and moaned and fought with my parents but at the end of the day I WAS STILL A MINOR and they could do whatever the fuck they wanted to me. I got grounded multiple times for doing shit they didn't want me to do, they took away the internet and wouldn't let me go out on the weekend. I was PISSED.

You know what I didn't do? FUCKING KILL MYSELF

Chris25 @ 1/1/2015 20:08

Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:55 But they were close minded Christian bigots. And yes, it was abuse. Her parents did everything they could from letting Leelah be herself and tried to make them who he parents wanted them to be. Leelah felt trapped in her own body and knew she was different since she was young. Her age should not invalidate her feelings because she wasn't legal. I knew since I was 13 that I wasn't straight. Is my sexuality invalidated because I was so young? I knew what I felt and Leelah knew what she felt. It was her life that her parents tried to control and make her feel that she wasn't a human being. When i was a freshman in high school, i wanted to go out partying and drinking every weekend with my GF (who happened to be a hot senior). GUESS WHAT, my parents wouldnt let me. I bitched and moaned and fought with my parents but at the end of the day I WAS STILL A MINOR and they could do whatever the fuck they wanted to me. I got grounded multiple times for doing shit they didn't want me to do, they took away the internet and wouldn't let me go out on the weekend. I was PISSED. You know what I didn't do? FUCKING KILL MYSELF

Leelah wasn't a brat, like what DD said. She wasn't kept from going out to parties, she was denied her basic human right. She did not know enough about trans people because her only access to it was taken away from her. She knew no other way of life.

Malion @ 1/1/2015 18:58

Pardon my hyperbole. I don't think any suggestions to remove the discussion were a "joke" though.

I do think it was good that this has its own thread but my comment was meant as a joke. Maybe saying it was meant to be light-hearted is more like it.

I don't see how passing judgment on someone because of their race, sexual preference, gender, etc is any different than passing judgment because of someone's religion. No matter what you think about Christianity, lumping everybody who has a certain faith together as all being close-minded bigots isn't fair or correct.

Moose @ 2/1/2015 14:18

Chris25 @ 1/1/2015 20:08 Moose @ 1/1/2015 18:55 But they were close minded Christian bigots. And yes, it was abuse. Her parents did everything they could from letting Leelah be herself and tried to make them who he parents wanted them to be. Leelah felt trapped in her own body and knew she was different since she was young. Her age should not invalidate her feelings because she wasn't legal. I knew since I was 13 that I wasn't straight. Is my sexuality invalidated because I was so young? I knew what I felt and Leelah knew what she felt. It was her life that her parents tried to control and make her feel that she wasn't a human being. When i was a freshman in high school, i wanted to go out partying and drinking every weekend with my GF (who happened to be a hot senior). GUESS WHAT, my parents wouldnt let me. I bitched and moaned and fought with my parents but at the end of the day I WAS STILL A MINOR and they could do whatever the fuck they wanted to me. I got grounded multiple times for doing shit they didn't want me to do, they took away the internet and wouldn't let me go out on the weekend. I was PISSED. You know what I didn't do? FUCKING KILL MYSELF Leelah wasn't a brat, like what DD said. She wasn't kept from going out to parties, she was denied her basic human right. She did not know enough about trans people because her only access to it was taken away from her. She knew no other way of life.

Based on that letter, that didn't seem to be an issue at all, she found out what they were at 14. But once again, the internet is not a basic human right.

Buffy @ 1/1/2015 20:22

I don't see how passing judgment on someone because of their race, sexual preference, gender, etc is any different than passing judgment because of someone's religion. No matter what you think about Christianity, lumping everybody who has a certain faith together as all being close-minded bigots isn't fair or correct.

I wasn't trying to say that they were bigots because of their religion, but that their view on their child because of their religion was bigoted.

Knowing what they are =/= having all necessary information

The Anti-Kiwifruit @ 1/1/2015 20:25

Based on that letter, that didn't seem to be an issue at all, she found out what they were at 14. But once again, the internet is not a basic human right.

Her right to be the person she wanted to be was the right I was referring to.

dr @ 2/1/2015 14:28

Knowing what they are =/= having all necessary information

Well purely based on that letter, it seemed her issue was with her parents understanding of the issue (and a range of other pressures unrelated to this) not a lack of information.

Moose @ 2/1/2015 14:29

The Anti-Kiwifruit @ 1/1/2015 20:25 Based on that letter, that didn't seem to be an issue at all, she found out what they were at 14. But once again, the internet is not a basic human right. Her right to be the person she wanted to be was the right I was referring to.

How expensive is it to transition out of curiosity?