Mittens @ 11/7/2018 12:19

I'm looking at the politifact articles now, and some of these predictions that they count as "kept" are hilarious. Obama: The Promise: "I will immediately sign a law that begins to phase out all incandescent light bulbs - a measure that will save American consumers $6 billion a year on their electric bills." Update December 19th, 2016: Through mix of federal standards and consumer actions, LED bulbs are growing fast Trump Nominate someone from his list of justices to replace Antonin Scalia “I am looking to appoint judges very much in the mold of Justice Scalia. I'm looking for judges — and I've actually picked 20 of them so that people would see.” Both of these are laughable, so comparing the lists for who has more kept/broken is stupid IMO because neither of these should count as real promises kept in the first place.

Yeah. That site is pretty iffy.

Actually, Obama pushed pretty hard on enforcement for the EISA (which was signed by Bush), which lead to a few Republican pushes, including defunding the EISA enforcement in 2011 and various attempts to push back through things like the "Light Bulb Freedom of Choice Act". DOE still pushed for improving residential codes by 30% in 2012, against Rep opposition.

Now, I would agree with you that Obama didn't phase it out. OTOH, that's not what he promised- he promised to begin to phase out. Despite Republican opposition and a bunch of people screaming and hoarding incandescent bulbs for a bit (I clearly remember this happening, even if you don't), Obama kept pushing on this. Hell, people almost creamed as bad as when you couldn't find anything but low-flow toilets anymore.

And you are saying that Trump isn't pulling judges from the crappy list he put together? I mean, he is keeping that promise. The fact the original list is crappy doesn't change the fact that he *is* doing it.

Yes they're both technically kept promises, but they're stupid.

Light bulbs to me was more of just consumer awareness of the benefits, so congrats to the president for influencing that I suppose. And Trump's kept promise was a no-brainer so that doesn't really count to me either.

So to me comparing the lists more so just comes down to how did they phrase their promises, and did the fill it up with easy to do shit like "I will toe the party line" or "I will begin to do ____" so their stats could look better.

Not that they actually care what this fact checker says, but you know what I mean.

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:00

Yes they're both technically kept promises, but they're stupid. Light bulbs to me was more of just consumer awareness of the benefits, so congrats to the president for influencing that I suppose. And Trump's kept promise was a no-brainer so that doesn't really count to me either.

Nah, there was big enforcement- again, if you don't remember the people screaming about "I won't be able to get regular light bulbs anymore" and flocking to Home Depot and Lowes to buy out every bulb they could find, I totally remember this. It was almost as funny as when people bought all the duct tape to "save themselves from a chemical attack" in the early 2000s.

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:01

So to me comparing the lists more so just comes down to how did they phrase their promises, and did the fill it up with easy to do shit like "I will toe the party line" or "I will begin to do ____" so their stats could look better. Not that they actually care what this fact checker says, but you know what I mean.

Umm, pretty sure they weren't doing things to "up their stats on Politifact".

vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:03

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:01 So to me comparing the lists more so just comes down to how did they phrase their promises, and did the fill it up with easy to do shit like "I will toe the party line" or "I will begin to do ____" so their stats could look better. Not that they actually care what this fact checker says, but you know what I mean. Umm, pretty sure they weren't doing things to "up their stats on Politifact".

Did you read the last sentence? Clearly not. Obviously that's not what they were doing, but using this 'metric' to compare is super weak.

vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:02

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:00 Yes they're both technically kept promises, but they're stupid. Light bulbs to me was more of just consumer awareness of the benefits, so congrats to the president for influencing that I suppose. And Trump's kept promise was a no-brainer so that doesn't really count to me either. Nah, there was big enforcement- again, if you don't remember the people screaming about "I won't be able to get regular light bulbs anymore" and flocking to Home Depot and Lowes to buy out every bulb they could find, I totally remember this. It was almost as funny as when people bought all the duct tape to "save themselves from a chemical attack" in the early 2000s.

Big enforcement to make people to buy regular light bulbs? That didn't happen.

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:08

vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:02 Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:00 Yes they're both technically kept promises, but they're stupid. Light bulbs to me was more of just consumer awareness of the benefits, so congrats to the president for influencing that I suppose. And Trump's kept promise was a no-brainer so that doesn't really count to me either. Nah, there was big enforcement- again, if you don't remember the people screaming about "I won't be able to get regular light bulbs anymore" and flocking to Home Depot and Lowes to buy out every bulb they could find, I totally remember this. It was almost as funny as when people bought all the duct tape to "save themselves from a chemical attack" in the early 2000s. Big enforcement to make people to buy regular light bulbs? That didn't happen.

Just because you were still in diapers in 2012-14 doesn't mean there wasn't a big freak out by people suddenly hoarding 40 and 60 watt incandescent bulbs. It was amazingly stupid.

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:07

vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:03 Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:01 So to me comparing the lists more so just comes down to how did they phrase their promises, and did the fill it up with easy to do shit like "I will toe the party line" or "I will begin to do ____" so their stats could look better. Not that they actually care what this fact checker says, but you know what I mean. Umm, pretty sure they weren't doing things to "up their stats on Politifact". Did you read the last sentence? Clearly not. Obviously that's not what they were doing, but using this 'metric' to compare is super weak.

Politifact spends it's entire time looking at political and media statements and rating them on how truthful they are. It's like pretty much their whole bally-wick. Look at just the front page of the site:

http://www.politifact.com/

"Danielle Pletka

Says Bernie Sanders was indifferent to Russia's annexation of Crimea because he felt "they have a lot of Russians anyway."

— PunditFact on Wednesday, July 11th, 2018

Rated False: He's spoken consistently against it
"


"Chris Murphy

On assault weapons, Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh’s position is "way out of the judicial mainstream, far to the right of even late Justice Scalia."

— PolitiFact National on Wednesday, July 11th, 2018 "

Rated Mostly False: On the same page"

vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:13

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:08 vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:02 Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:00 Yes they're both technically kept promises, but they're stupid. Light bulbs to me was more of just consumer awareness of the benefits, so congrats to the president for influencing that I suppose. And Trump's kept promise was a no-brainer so that doesn't really count to me either. Nah, there was big enforcement- again, if you don't remember the people screaming about "I won't be able to get regular light bulbs anymore" and flocking to Home Depot and Lowes to buy out every bulb they could find, I totally remember this. It was almost as funny as when people bought all the duct tape to "save themselves from a chemical attack" in the early 2000s. Big enforcement to make people to buy regular light bulbs? That didn't happen. Just because you were still in diapers in 2012-14 doesn't mean there wasn't a big freak out by people suddenly hoarding 40 and 60 watt incandescent bulbs. It was amazingly stupid.

You're saying two different things. Big enforcement to make people buy them, or people were just being idiots on their own.

Vlady I get what they do, and it can be a useful tool. I think it's a dumb metric to use to compare two politicians, because so many of the campaign promises they make are no-brainers or won't have any impact at all. I picked out two stupid ones as an example.

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:19

vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:13 Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:08 vladykins @ 11/7/2018 14:02 Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:00 Yes they're both technically kept promises, but they're stupid. Light bulbs to me was more of just consumer awareness of the benefits, so congrats to the president for influencing that I suppose. And Trump's kept promise was a no-brainer so that doesn't really count to me either. Nah, there was big enforcement- again, if you don't remember the people screaming about "I won't be able to get regular light bulbs anymore" and flocking to Home Depot and Lowes to buy out every bulb they could find, I totally remember this. It was almost as funny as when people bought all the duct tape to "save themselves from a chemical attack" in the early 2000s. Big enforcement to make people to buy regular light bulbs? That didn't happen. Just because you were still in diapers in 2012-14 doesn't mean there wasn't a big freak out by people suddenly hoarding 40 and 60 watt incandescent bulbs. It was amazingly stupid. You're saying two different things. Big enforcement to make people buy them, or people were just being idiots on their own.

NPO, I'm saying both thing- big enforcement coming, followed by people overreacting and being idiots, thinking all incandescents were getting immediately banned. As I said, like when people freaked out over the low-flow toilet rules and started doing stuff like buying toilets in Canada. You want to separate the enforcement and the idiotic public reaction to said enforcement.

Mittens @ 11/7/2018 14:22

Vlady I get what they do, and it can be a useful tool. I think it's a dumb metric to use to compare two politicians, because so many of the campaign promises they make are no-brainers or won't have any impact at all. I picked out two stupid ones as an example.

It was a reaction to Ape saying "Trump has kept more promises than all the previous admins." Ape set up the false metric. I agree that this being a metric by itself is useless, but I'm not the one who brought it up. ;)