Zersch @ 7/8/2017 2:35

The show is trying to trick us into loving Dany by surrounding her with all of the good characters.

That goes right back to the argument I made about the show succumbing to fan-service. In a quick way to wrap up storylines, they are residing to the traditional 'good vs evil' plot by associating all the 'good characters' (Jon, Tyrion, Davos, Olenna, Asha etc) with Dany, and all the 'evil characters' (Euron, Qyburn, Randyll) with Cersei.

It's a shame because that's what GRRM has been trying to avoid for the over 25+ years he's been writing these books and he's still succeeding it in that department, the story is still very grey. It's a shame the show is rushing it to this clear cut 'good vs evil' crap.

Zersch @ 6/8/2017 22:47

I'm laughing my ass off at "Jamme" for some reason.

Everyone get your jammes on!

Miko @ 6/8/2017 19:48

Zersch @ 7/8/2017 2:35 The show is trying to trick us into loving Dany by surrounding her with all of the good characters. That goes right back to the argument I made about the show succumbing to fan-service. In a quick way to wrap up storylines, they are residing to the traditional 'good vs evil' plot by associating all the 'good characters' (Jon, Tyrion, Davos, Olenna, Asha etc) with Dany, and all the 'evil characters' (Euron, Qyburn, Randyll) with Cersei. It's a shame because that's what GRRM has been trying to avoid for the over 25+ years he's been writing these books and he's still succeeding it in that department, the story is still very grey. It's a shame the show is rushing it to this clear cut 'good vs evil' crap.

But Cersei is literally helping the Josef Mengele of Westeros with his experiments in the books and is clearly a bat shit crazy bitch.

Not denying that.

I'm more bringing up the argument that they are bringing characters like Euron and Randyll into the mix and associating them with Cersei just because they 'lean' more to what the showrunners want us to see as 'evil'.

Cause if you think about it - Euron is currently trying to make a marriage pact with Dany in the books and is an entirely different character (though just as, or maybe even more, evil than in the show). That's a good way of blending what is generally accepted as 'good' with what is generally accepted as 'evil' without making this clear-cut division. Though both parties have supporters within the ASOIAF fan-base. I'm a huge bookEuron fan and hope his plan succeeds as he is a dark motherfucker who is a deeply-layered character.

I'm not saying it's a flaw to have 'bad-leanings' and 'good-leanings' as each side in real-history has that with every historical figure. I'm more just criticising the way they are associating outside characters with a clear-cut 'good vs evil' plot.

It's just the show is going a bit too OTT with the divisions as well as portraying the divide in a cringey black/white way.

The only grey-characters left in the show in my opinion are Jamie, Bronn and Melisandre.

Though admittedly (you guys can'y deny this) the show dropped the ball on Jamie's superb evolution within the books. That can't be denied.

They still did a good job with keeping him as a 'grey' character, but he's not nearly as layered as he could have been with what the first 3 seasons had been building up to for him.

I'd argue Littlefinger as being grey as well, but it's clear the show wants you to hate him and is doing everything in it's power to paint him as evil.

I still love and root for him though. Even more so in the books. He's for sure a top 5 character for me personally within ASOIAF.

All of the gold the Lannister's had that they were going to give to the Iron Bank of Braavos was also caught up in all of that carnage, wasn't it? Or am I mistaken and had they already paid the bank back prior to the Highgarden siege?

No, the gold made it safely to KL. It was the grain that Drogon burned.

Do you guys think that was Meera's final scene of the entire series? Given how they are rushing things along, I don't see what purpose she has to the plot anymore which is sad.

I'm hoping they show Howland and Meera somehow get warped back into the story during S8 and the inevitable battle between the dead and the living. Also - it would be nice if they just showed Howland Reed in the show just due to him being the only man still alive in what is possibly the most historically significant event of their time-period (an event that will clearly change the future).

Miko @ 6/8/2017 21:13

Zersch @ 7/8/2017 2:05 Curtis @ 6/8/2017 21:25 These series long awaited Stark reunions should really be 50x more emotional than this Was legit more emotional to see Arya and Brienne spar than to see Sansa/Bran/Arya together again. They try and make something emotional and monumental but the problem with that was that they didn't establish any sort of bond between them in seasons prior. Sure, they're family. But the short time they had together in S1 was like this: Bran>Sansa = no communication shown Arya>Bran = no verbal communication shown Sansa>Arya = a hateful relationship shown There was nothing for us to feel nostalgic or happy about, as there was literally no context within the scene for the viewers besides that they are 'family'. Exposition is everything, and they dropped the ball on this one. Jon and Arya's reunion on the other hand will probably be a bit more meaningful.

wasn't all of that their exact relationships in the books? S1 was extremely faithful, to that aspect and in general. Though I do think they could've done a bit more with the Jon/Arya relationship (like maybe one more scene together before they split up)

And I do agree the Stark reunions could've been better but it also would've rang false if they all acted like they were the tightest knit siblings ever. I think how well they do the Jon/Arya reunion (if it happens) will be more important

Miko @ 6/8/2017 22:50

Do you guys think that was Meera's final scene of the entire series? Given how they are rushing things along, I don't see what purpose she has to the plot anymore which is sad.

ya probs. Which is sad cuz I liked her a lot. She had the most thankless job of the entire series having to deal with that crew

Episode was decent but that ending bumped it up a bunch of notches, that was really well done. Like Curt said that ground-level shot of Bronn stumbling through the carnage was the best part for sure

It's so frustrating watching Jaime fight for this cause, I want to root for him so bad. Even if Dany sucks that's clearly the side I'm rooting for over Cersei. Still hoping this is building up to a kin/queen-slaying, maybe Tyrion will be able to challenge Jaime's point of view on Cersei like Olenna did last week

Boc @ 7/8/2017 4:00

wasn't all of that their exact relationships in the books? S1 was extremely faithful, to that aspect and in general.

Just to clear that up, I did state that the books had just as much lack of communication between the Stark siblings as the show did.

Miko @ 7/8/2017 2:17

I get that it'd either way be more meaningful in the books due to that we can go inside their heads during their POV chapters, but even then, the book had just as much lack of communication between the Stark siblings as the show initially did back in S1. And they don't think about each other as much as you'd think.

He should have thrown the spear