Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 13:40

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right?

Yes, it's way better than the 70s where your husband could legally rape you and beat you. But that doesn't make things acceptable either. All you are saying then is "It could be worse- deal with it." That's not helpful at all.

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 13:46

Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 13:40 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right? Yes, it's way better than the 70s where your husband could legally rape you and beat you. But that doesn't make things acceptable either. All you are saying then is "It could be worse- deal with it." That's not helpful at all.

I'm not saying that at all, what I'm saying is that we're steady progress and there has never been a better time to be a woman in all of recorded history.

Nothing changes overnight and for people to expect it to is completely unrealistic. Look how long it took for shit to change for black people and like gay marriage and shit. Steady progress is a good thing.

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 14:46

Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 13:40 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right? Yes, it's way better than the 70s where your husband could legally rape you and beat you. But that doesn't make things acceptable either. All you are saying then is "It could be worse- deal with it." That's not helpful at all.

Chris uses this same argument about race relations, too, and I’m never really sure how that point contributes to anything.

Chris are you trying to say we should just settle rather than work to make things better?

Well I guess it’s not an argument, more like a point.

Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 14:51

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 13:46 Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 13:40 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right? Yes, it's way better than the 70s where your husband could legally rape you and beat you. But that doesn't make things acceptable either. All you are saying then is "It could be worse- deal with it." That's not helpful at all. I'm not saying that at all, what I'm saying is that we're steady progress and there has never been a better time to be a woman in all of recorded history. Nothing changes overnight and for people to expect it to is completely unrealistic. Look how long it took for shit to change for black people and like gay marriage and shit. Steady progress is a good thing.

Yeah but there’s not really progress without discussion and then recognition and realisation, and as a result action.

Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 12:51

I'm not saying that at all, what I'm saying is that we're steady progress and there has never been a better time to be a woman in all of recorded history. Nothing changes overnight and for people to expect it to is completely unrealistic. Look how long it took for shit to change for black people and like gay marriage and shit. Steady progress is a good thing.

I agree that steady progress is a good thing. I believe that steady progress only happens by consistently challenging the status-quo and looking for ways we can improve as people.

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 7:17

Igor @ 2/11/2017 19:04 I think a good example is that thread about that new show about the Civil War/slavery. Bunch of people were up in arms when they are not African American and have absolutely no right to say what they should be offended by. Again- I love that you are the arbiter of what others can and can't discuss or feel emotional about. The Libertarian facade crumbles pretty quickly. (Igor's response will be "Well, I think it is stupid they do that when they don't have a dog in the show." Great- you can express your outrage at their outrage. That's the joy of free speech- it's a two way street.)

Not trying to censor them, just trying to show how retarded they sound about getting offended at absolutely nothing.

lol at someone challenging their viewpoints immediately results to them saying "YOU LACK EMPATHY!!! HOW DARE YOU NOT THINK LIKE WE DO"

Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 14:40

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right?

I mean it's also the best time to be gay, trans, or a person of color but that doesn't mean there aren't steps to be made.

Maddie @ 3/11/2017 13:51

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 14:46 Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 13:40 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right? Yes, it's way better than the 70s where your husband could legally rape you and beat you. But that doesn't make things acceptable either. All you are saying then is "It could be worse- deal with it." That's not helpful at all. Chris uses this same argument about race relations, too, and I’m never really sure how that point contributes to anything. Chris are trying to say we should just settle rather than work to make things better?

I'm not saying that we should settle at all. What we're doing is obviously working so we need to keep doing it.

I'm saying that progress is slow and that for people to expect everything to be fucking sunshine and rainbows by next Thursday is living in fantasy land.

Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 15:08

Maddie @ 3/11/2017 13:51 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 14:46 Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 13:40 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right? Yes, it's way better than the 70s where your husband could legally rape you and beat you. But that doesn't make things acceptable either. All you are saying then is "It could be worse- deal with it." That's not helpful at all. Chris uses this same argument about race relations, too, and I’m never really sure how that point contributes to anything. Chris are trying to say we should just settle rather than work to make things better? I'm not saying that we should settle at all. What we're doing is obviously working so we need to keep doing it. I'm saying that progress is slow and that for people to expect everything to be fucking sunshine and rainbows by next Thursday is living in fantasy land.

Translation: SOCIETY ISNT CHANGING SO IM NOT EITHER

Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 14:08

Maddie @ 3/11/2017 13:51 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 14:46 Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 13:40 vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33 In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go. But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right? Yes, it's way better than the 70s where your husband could legally rape you and beat you. But that doesn't make things acceptable either. All you are saying then is "It could be worse- deal with it." That's not helpful at all. Chris uses this same argument about race relations, too, and I’m never really sure how that point contributes to anything. Chris are trying to say we should just settle rather than work to make things better? I'm not saying that we should settle at all. What we're doing is obviously working so we need to keep doing it. I'm saying that progress is slow and that for people to expect everything to be fucking sunshine and rainbows by next Thursday is living in fantasy land.

And that's why you have to keep challenging the prevailing attitude.

IF WE PUNCH THE NAZIS THAT MAKES US THE NAZIS

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 11:14

Wikey @ 3/11/2017 10:22 Okay, I had a bit of time left, I read Vlady's post. I will read the Atlantic article. But something tells me none of us are going change our minds on this subject. Which is fine. This is a touchy subject for a lot of people (no pun intended). And we have strong opinions on this either side of the issue. Tbf, it does seem that we are all misunderstanding each others position a fair bit. No, I think you (and Igor) have a perspective that is understandable given your experience. I don't think you (or Igor) is truly bad or sexist; I think you are just ignorant of what women truly experience on a day to day basis. And you are not alone in this experience- most men don't even have an inkling, which is why some women started stuff like the #MeToo thing, which was about creating awareness about how prevalent sexual harassment and assault is. I did have one issue with your discussion earlier: the hand on knee being a "what if she reciprocates" situation. Again- look at it form you being in prison and a guy starts rubbing your shoulders. After all, what if you reciprocate, right? Do you feel comfortable saying no? Do you feel he'll just stop and respect your boundaries if you do?

A guy that does in prison he better square up, I'm fucking punching him in the face.
That woman said she's going to punch him in the face if he does it again, boom problem solved.
Notice how gender doesn't matter and you get the same result.
I agree with Wikey that it would be different if it was one of his employees.
Honestly I don't think he had any bad intentions, just an old fashioned dude thinking he was flirting.

Nofo @ 3/11/2017 14:13

IF WE PUNCH THE NAZIS THAT MAKES US THE NAZIS

Punching nazis is the dumbest thing the left has come up with