Chris25 @ 3/11/2017 11:36

This seems more like an abuse of power thing than just a "all men abuse women" thing. These are things that should be addressed by human resources and I feel in a lot of cases are although you're not going to catch every skeeze ball before shit happens. I also feel like a lot of this stuff is happening from guys like 40-50+ when that sort of shit was more the norm. I think younger men are a lot more cognizant of what can happen if they act inappropriately towards women.

For your first point, it is an abuse of power. But similar stuff happens all the time. Some of us guys on the list have done similar things and probably aren't even aware of it- that's why it is an awareness thing more than anything. Hell, when I became an executive, we had to take special training where the options were usually obvious (pick the one involving HR and you likely had the right answer) and while some of the questions/options were absurd on their face, the point they were making was less so. For example, there was a question like:

The team completes a successful engagement, so you take everyone out for beers at the bar after work hours. During the night, Jim makes comments about how Linda needs to wear tight pants like she used to because she looked better then. Do you:

a) Ignore it- Jim's your friend.
b) Ignore it- it's after work hours anyway.
c) Fire Jim immediately
d) Contact HR to discuss how best to
---

As I said, the question options are pretty absurd and obvious, but the situation isn't that far-fetched. And, as I noted, if you don't see an issue with what Jim said, imagine someone in prison saying the same thing to you and it becomes a different story.

In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go.

Did you choose to fire his ass?

Serious question - how would the answer change if Jim were talking about someone who wasn't another employee?

Mittens @ 3/11/2017 12:47

Did you choose to fire his ass? Serious question - how would the answer change if Jim were talking about someone who wasn't another employee?

Since it was a work-related event, even though after-hours, and it was heard by other employees, it would have been considered something he and HR would need to discuss, since the activity could reflect on the firm. More so, other employees may see me as condoning his actions if I don't address it, which reflects on me as a manager.

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:13

Mittens @ 3/11/2017 12:47 Did you choose to fire his ass? Serious question - how would the answer change if Jim were talking about someone who wasn't another employee? Since it was a work-related event, even though after-hours, and it was heard by other employees, it would have been considered something he and HR would need to discuss, since the activity could reflect on the firm. More so, other employees may see me as condoning is actions if I don't address it, which reflects on me as a manager.

Of course. I think it's pretty easily answer D in the situation you drew up. BUT, what if it was the exact same scenario and Jim were talking about someone who wasn't a coworker? Would you act the same way and talk to HR?

That should say Answer D LOL - idk if that's a fire-able offense

Mittens @ 3/11/2017 13:15

That should say Answer D LOL - idk if that's a fire-able offense

It wouldn't be a straight fireable offense as is, but would likely go on their record in case a pattern of behavior happens.

Why are you dodging the question, Vlady?

This is like the hotdog discussion all over again!

And FTR, it would be the same if a woman was making comments like that about a dude. ;)

Mittens @ 3/11/2017 13:19

Why are you dodging the question, Vlady?

LOL- I did. Non-coworker wouldn't matter- it's a work event. As I said- if he said it about someone else, and I did nothing, I am implying support for his actions.

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:24

Mittens @ 3/11/2017 13:19 Why are you dodging the question, Vlady? LOL- I did. Non-coworker wouldn't matter- it's a work event. As I said- if he said it about someone else, and I did nothing, I am implying support for his actions.

Gotcha. I would tend to agree, but I would guess more people would let it slide if it was about someone who wasn't an employee.

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 13:13

Mittens @ 3/11/2017 12:47 Did you choose to fire his ass? Serious question - how would the answer change if Jim were talking about someone who wasn't another employee? Since it was a work-related event, even though after-hours, and it was heard by other employees, it would have been considered something he and HR would need to discuss, since the activity could reflect on the firm. More so, other employees may see me as condoning his actions if I don't address it, which reflects on me as a manager.

I think you missed this post- didn't dodge the question at all.

Mittens @ 3/11/2017 13:25

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:24 Mittens @ 3/11/2017 13:19 Why are you dodging the question, Vlady? LOL- I did. Non-coworker wouldn't matter- it's a work event. As I said- if he said it about someone else, and I did nothing, I am implying support for his actions. Gotcha. I would tend to agree, but I would guess more people would let it slide if it was about someone who wasn't an employee.

Considering Lynda could consider it the creation of a hostile workplace, that would be an issue. Alcohol is also a factor here (in fact, a follow up question has Jim coming to discuss with you his alcoholism). ;)

Wow, Jim, get your shit together man!

vladykins @ 3/11/2017 12:33

In terms of it being a 40-50 y.o. problem: The whole "incel" movement is mostly 20-40 somethings. And the behavior is exhibited at all ages. Millennials and Gen Xers are more aware on a lot of social issues than Baby Boomers, but as I said earlier in the thread, we've still got a whole long way to go.

But you have to agree that there's no better time to be a woman than in all of recorded history up to this point, right?