DR @ 13/1/2018 12:52

I'd be more forgiving of the confederate monuments if they were actually a relic of a different time when slavery was the norm and the war had just been fought, but a lot of them were put up during the civil rights movement a century later as a way of pushing a political agenda, not actually commemorating the people the monuments are supposed to stand for. I'd say move them to a museum somewhere, rather than outright tearing them down to preserve the history, but they're being torn down as a reaction to a changing social climate, just like the reason they were put up in the first place. Then being torn down by angry protesters is as much HISTORY as any of it, so "learning from history" is a fairly weak argument for leaving them up. There's no current social shift against the rulers of ancient rome that's going to tear down the coliseum. The statue thing is much more CURRENT in every sense.

I completely agree with this. The statues are history no matter what and should be preserved. A museum would provide the opportunity to display them with context underneath explaining when and why they were erected and why they were consequently taken down.

National anthem- Wikey is missing the point. It's not about football. It's about a poorly thought out movement who learned that, even in the "look at me no matter what" era, there is such thing as bad press after all.

Death on youtube- It's in poor taste, but it isn't up to everyone else to filter what you view. Don't watch, ffs.

Coolest monkey- I have no idea what this is, but voted for it because monkeys are freaking adorable.

Happy Holidays- who gives a fuck what Trump says . At this point it's like picking on the special ed kids.


Dressing up as Madeleine McCann for Halloween- no cares


Sexual allegations in Hollywood- This has been going on since the dawn of time, but it's news because it happened to some flaky fuckheads with money?

Apple purposely slowing down older iPhones- I use android. Laughably shady, though. Not nearly as shady as what vw did, but that was never mentioned here.

I too have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his- as a child of the cold war kid, this worries me greatly.


What's your preferred pronoun- I'm with wikey on this one. Call yourself whatever you want, but leave your professional victim disorder at home.

Destruction of Confederate monuments in Virgina. "Virgina?" sounds like an East Coast titty bar, tbh. Seriously, I can see both sides. Destroying history is never good, but the losing culture in a war usually gets wiped out.

Kenya is a shithole- so is the USA. I want to fix that first.

California legalizes recreational marijuana- I haven't seen any real numbers from Colo so who knows if this is good or bad?

Death from the flu- Viral evolution is exponential, and this is still deadly as fuck, with little being done in the way of research.

Teenagers eating Tide pods- I already commented on this. I feel bad for the deaths of the senile and the kiddos, but holy shit, stop blaming the company for it.

Mass shootings in the USA- as I said above. The place is a shithole. Mental illness and disenfranchisement are a potent cocktail. Again, stop blaming the guns and the tv.


Big game hunting- Again, I'm with Wikey. I was raised with the "you kill it, you eat it" code. Trophy hunting is for douchey poseurs. Hunting protected species is even worse.

Wikey @ 13/1/2018 11:44

Buffy @ 13/1/2018 12:01 The confederate monuments don't serve as "lessons" for us to learn. They were erected by white supremacists as a way to assert their white supremacy. The point still stands. You can take nearly any historical monument and you'll find some ugly history behind it. All the churches in Europe were erected by Christians to assert Christian supremacy. There's a lot of ugly history there, but I don't think anybody would suggest we should tear down all churches today.

I would like all the confederate monuments taken down and I think a lot of people would. I understand what you're saying but, it's not a history lesson. It's a bunch of statues/monuments put up by racists. It's no different (to me) than hanging the nazi flag all over the place and people would want those taken down. Well most, hopefully.

And I don't think they deserve their own museum.

Buffy @ 13/1/2018 11:03

Wikey @ 13/1/2018 11:44 Buffy @ 13/1/2018 12:01 The confederate monuments don't serve as "lessons" for us to learn. They were erected by white supremacists as a way to assert their white supremacy. The point still stands. You can take nearly any historical monument and you'll find some ugly history behind it. All the churches in Europe were erected by Christians to assert Christian supremacy. There's a lot of ugly history there, but I don't think anybody would suggest we should tear down all churches today. I would like all the confederate monuments taken down and I think a lot of people would. I understand what you're saying but, it's not a history lesson. It's a bunch of statues/monuments put up by racists. It's no different (to me) than hanging the nazi flag all over the place and people would want those taken down. Well most, hopefully.

I disagree. History shouldn't be destroyed, and the fact that some of them were erected as an anti civil rights message makes them even more historically significant. I do like the museum idea better than tearing them down or leaving them where they are, though.

The churches in Europe that he mentions have a much longer and much more horrifying history than the short lived confederacy.

Otoh, I can definitely see how black people would find them to be really offensive. I think that could also be lessened in a museum with appropriate context.

I wasn't suggesting they get their own museum, just displayed in a museum somewhere. Like a small, insignificant wing.

Understanding history is the only chance to keep from repeating it.

Mads @ 13/1/2018 12:16

I wasn't suggesting they get their own museum, just displayed in a museum somewhere. Like a small, insignificant wing.

"their own museum" was not meant to be literal but I don't agree the statues/monuments themselves should be preserved in a museum. Photos of them somewhere, sure. That is part of history. But, I don't think the actual statue/monument needs to be preserved. Obviously just my own opinion and many would disagree but they're a symbol of hate and destroying them is a symbol of sort of crushing that hate imo, or a step toward it.

Primate @ 13/1/2018 12:19

Understanding history is the only chance to keep from repeating it.

Yeah, no one said not to understand/remember. Just like hanging nazi flags around doesn't need to be done for us to understand/remember.

Mads @ 13/1/2018 12:51

Wikey @ 13/1/2018 12:44 Buffy @ 13/1/2018 12:01 The confederate monuments don't serve as "lessons" for us to learn. They were erected by white supremacists as a way to assert their white supremacy. The point still stands. You can take nearly any historical monument and you'll find some ugly history behind it. All the churches in Europe were erected by Christians to assert Christian supremacy. There's a lot of ugly history there, but I don't think anybody would suggest we should tear down all churches today. Yeah but those churches are still used, for the most part. Confederate monuments are glorifying a rebel government that tried to break up the United States. Why would it make sense to honor that?

It is less about honouring as it is remembering.

There is a tendency for people to go too far with ideas like this. The Nelson's Column example from my previous post wasn't hypothetical. Some crazy Guardian writer proposed tearing it down.

On the confederate monuments though, I wasn't aware some were put up during the Civil Rights Movement. That does change the context, for sure. And I entirely agree with the idea of putting them in a museum.

Mads @ 13/1/2018 11:16

I wasn't suggesting they get their own museum, just displayed in a museum somewhere. Like a small, insignificant wing.

I don't think it should be in an insignificant wing. I think it's a really important and formative part of our history, and those statues could be a great teaching tool if done right.

I can agree to disagree, though.

Wikey @ 13/1/2018 13:22

Mads @ 13/1/2018 12:51 Wikey @ 13/1/2018 12:44 Buffy @ 13/1/2018 12:01 The confederate monuments don't serve as "lessons" for us to learn. They were erected by white supremacists as a way to assert their white supremacy. The point still stands. You can take nearly any historical monument and you'll find some ugly history behind it. All the churches in Europe were erected by Christians to assert Christian supremacy. There's a lot of ugly history there, but I don't think anybody would suggest we should tear down all churches today. Yeah but those churches are still used, for the most part. Confederate monuments are glorifying a rebel government that tried to break up the United States. Why would it make sense to honor that? It is less about honouring as it is remembering. There is a tendency for people to go too far with ideas like this. The Nelson's Column example from my previous post wasn't hypothetical. Some crazy Guardian writer proposed tearing it down. On the confederate monuments though, I wasn't aware some were put up during the Civil Rights Movement. That does change the context, for sure. And I entirely agree with the idea of putting them in a museum.

I agree with you about preserving history. But I don't think having statues in American towns and cities memorializing the Confederacy is an appropriate way to do this.

Imagine being a black man in somewhere like Savannah, Georgia, with a Confederate memorial in your community and having to look at a painful reminder every day of what your ancestor's went through in this country.

Wikey @ 13/1/2018 12:22

Mads @ 13/1/2018 12:51 Wikey @ 13/1/2018 12:44 Buffy @ 13/1/2018 12:01 The confederate monuments don't serve as "lessons" for us to learn. They were erected by white supremacists as a way to assert their white supremacy. The point still stands. You can take nearly any historical monument and you'll find some ugly history behind it. All the churches in Europe were erected by Christians to assert Christian supremacy. There's a lot of ugly history there, but I don't think anybody would suggest we should tear down all churches today. Yeah but those churches are still used, for the most part. Confederate monuments are glorifying a rebel government that tried to break up the United States. Why would it make sense to honor that? It is less about honouring as it is remembering. There is a tendency for people to go too far with ideas like this. The Nelson's Column example from my previous post wasn't hypothetical. Some crazy Guardian writer proposed tearing it down. On the confederate monuments though, I wasn't aware some were put up during the Civil Rights Movement. That does change the context, for sure. And I entirely agree with the idea of putting them in a museum.

Some were erected during the civil rights movement, a lot were erected during the reconstruction period after the civil war. A lot were erected during the late 19th century, but they were basically all erected to change history, not to tell it like it was.

Buffy @ 13/1/2018 13:20

Mads @ 13/1/2018 12:16 I wasn't suggesting they get their own museum, just displayed in a museum somewhere. Like a small, insignificant wing. "their own museum" was not meant to be literal but I don't agree the statues/monuments themselves should be preserved in a museum. Photos of them somewhere, sure. That is part of history. But, I don't think the actual statue/monument needs to be preserved. Obviously just my own opinion and many would disagree but they're a symbol of hate and destroying them is a symbol of sort of crushing that hate imo, or a step toward it.

What do you think about museums displaying pieces of the Berlin Wall, then? Or religious relics used in colonization, Nazi memorabilia from WWII, etc.? Not asking this to call you out, I'm just curious because this is an interesting perspective on the idea of a museum generally and raises some interesting questions.