Hermarajah @ 1/1/2015 15:09

In Sweden we have a word for people who are genderless. Male = Han Female = Hon Genderless = Hen

That would be useful.

Here's my 2¢ for Message Boards 101.

I think any debate regardless of subject that is getting that ridiculously heated should be put into it's own thread when it's taking over a thread that doesn't have a general theme. Boolshit is sillai nonsense where different topics are scattered about at different times among random jokes and stories. But when it turns into a four page argument about a particular subject, it overtakes the thread itself and buries everything else. Therefor it deserves it's own thread. Not just because it's derailing another, but because it's a big enough topic to discuss in a multi-page thread on a discussion board. In addition, this is a topical enough discussion that someone may want to bring back later or a new member interested in discussing it may stumble upon, using this thread as the perfect platform to do so... not digging up a lost debate hidden away in boolshit.

Natalie @ 1/1/2015 16:02

I don't think it was an awful idea to move it here, I was trying to follow it in the other thread but actually felt there was enough that it did deserve it's own thread. Guess it's a case of how you choose to see it. Feels more respected to me here than there, but ymmv. Read an article of an interview with the mom. They didn't allow surgeries to begin at age 16 which apparently triggered some of the feelings of rejection. That made me curious what you all think about that? Should they have allowed and paid for this at 16?

It was a combination of people asking to move it without actually being participants in the conversation and furthermore liking a comment calling the current discussion "fucking stupid" that pissed me off for the most part.

I don't think the family was ever going to allow this to happen. They felt it wasn't keeping with their image and even in death refused to acknowledge it even was a suicide or that anything was actually wrong. She had to wait til she was 18 to have the operation for herself but was fed misinformation that transitioning is harder the older you are. So she felt like she was against the clock to get it done. They took her out of school and took away all of her access to social media so she felt even more alone for the longest time. I can only imagine how hard that must be. Your only contact with people who don't see or tolerate you for the way you feel you are. I wish she hadn't killed herself, she probably felt at that point it was the only control she had. It's a shame that she was denied control even of her own death, what with the lie of what happened and them not honouring her wishes or referring to her in the way she chose to be. It's all just so... fucking sad.

Natalie @ 1/1/2015 16:15

And in the interest of trying not to offend, can someone explain how you know if the person would prefer to be addressed as a he or she? I don't want to hurt people and honestly don't know so I'm asking. What if you don't know the person well, or know their wishes?

Well generally the best way to go is to ask what their preferred pronouns are.

Natalie @ 1/1/2015 15:15

And in the interest of trying not to offend, can someone explain how you know if the person would prefer to be addressed as a he or she? I don't want to hurt people and honestly don't know so I'm asking. What if you don't know the person well, or know their wishes?

mte
which is why I always thought you called them their desired pronoun after the transition.

And for the record, I wasn't calling the issue or discussion of transphobia "fucking stupid". It was that people were getting that worked up over a couple of Chris posts, who has done this countless times but still somehow always has people fall for it and post long rants at him. I realize that this subject can be a polarizing subject, but in this instance it was really just people preaching to the choir.

Some people just want to come to FE to kick back and laugh with their pals. Not get pulled into an emotional discussion with people swearing at each other over genitalia and then get accused of oppressing the subject for not getting involved.

I didn't think of it as preaching to the choir and Chris' opinions weren't entirely uncommon. I realise he has been trolly before but he has also likewise been... not? (then again he might have been trolling then too but just didn't seem like it because I was agreeing with him???)

I like to think the best of people and there is always the echo of "they can't possibly be that big of an asshole can they?" in the back of my head. But then *bam* schlong right to the face

Carla Wood Alcorn continues to misgender her daughter in interviews and its disgusting to do so and later say how much she loved her.

KC @ 1/1/2015 17:02

And for the record, I wasn't calling the issue or discussion of transphobia "fucking stupid". It was that people were getting that worked up over a couple of Chris posts, who has done this countless times but still somehow always has people fall for it and post long rants at him. I realize that this subject can be a polarizing subject, but in this instance it was really just people preaching to the choir. Some people just want to come to FE to kick back and laugh with their pals. Not get pulled into an emotional discussion with people swearing at each other over genitalia and then get accused of oppressing the subject for not getting involved.

I don't think anyone fell for it. It's obviously an attempt to rile us up but that doesn't excuse the fact that Chris honestly does feel this way about trans people. We had a conversation about trans women in the skype chat and Chris really does consider trans women to be men and does hate them. It's not trolling if the opinions they are spouting are their own.

There is a petition going around for congress to enact Leela's Law, which will ban transgender conversion therapy.

https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-enact-leelah-s-law-to-ban-transgender-conversion-therapy

Nofo ☭ @ 2/1/2015 0:00

Carla Wood Alcorn continues to misgender her daughter in interviews and its disgusting to do so and later say how much she loved her.

Playing devil's advocate maybe her family loved her and what they are doing they thought was right but hell I'm no religious fanatic just a skeptic, there is probably more to this matter.

Kru @ 1/1/2015 17:19

Nofo ☭ @ 2/1/2015 0:00 Carla Wood Alcorn continues to misgender her daughter in interviews and its disgusting to do so and later say how much she loved her. Playing devil's advocate maybe her family loved her and what they are doing they thought was right but hell I'm no religious fanatic just a skeptic, there is probably more to this matter.

What they thought was right was ruining their daughters life. You'd think that with taking Leelah to therapy and seeing how depressed she was they would think, "Hey, this is make our child happy, we should listen to what she has to say."

Leelah never spoke to her mother about being transgendered after coming out for the first time. She hated her parents for what they did to her.

Kru @ 1/1/2015 18:19

Nofo ☭ @ 2/1/2015 0:00 Carla Wood Alcorn continues to misgender her daughter in interviews and its disgusting to do so and later say how much she loved her. Playing devil's advocate maybe her family loved her and what they are doing they thought was right but hell I'm no religious fanatic just a skeptic, there is probably more to this matter.

http://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privileged-people-who-play-devils-advocate/

Moose @ 2/1/2015 0:25

Kru @ 1/1/2015 17:19 Nofo ☭ @ 2/1/2015 0:00 Carla Wood Alcorn continues to misgender her daughter in interviews and its disgusting to do so and later say how much she loved her. Playing devil's advocate maybe her family loved her and what they are doing they thought was right but hell I'm no religious fanatic just a skeptic, there is probably more to this matter. What they thought was right was ruining their daughters life. You'd think that with taking Leelah to therapy and seeing how depressed she was they would think, "Hey, this is make our child happy, we should listen to what she has to say." Leelah never spoke to her mother about being transgendered after coming out for the first time. She hated her parents for what they did to her.

Or they probably went "You are just being childish, stop that." Not defending these assholes, but I think this suicide thing is retarded, If I was her, I would just deal with it until I'm 18, move out, disown my family and do whatever the fuck I wish with my gender. I think the parents are just being overdemonized, that's all. Sure what they did was stupid but like the religious nuts they are, they didn't hire a real therapist or thought transgender people were the spawn of Satan, hell the kid probably could be a selfish prick desperate for attention.

Malion @ 1/1/2015 13:33

Part of me is glad this is a continued discussion but the other part of me is pissed that there was such an outcry to exile it into it's own thread, which reeks more of "take it away from the place that I usually post so I don't have to see it" rather than "I'm genuinely interested in this topic and would like for it not to be cast into a general discussion thread where it won't get the attention it deserves"

there wasn't an outcry, it was a joke, chill out.