I think the 50% hosts have day in mind and the over 50% hosts have night in mind. There's a good argument for either. Definitely a stupid to run a day where mafia can just tie it, but also feels improper to go into a 50/50 night where town still has a shot. Basically I think you can argue just fine for either but the win con should be public knowledge and you just let your players play to whichever you feel is best for your setup

But this is why I generally don't like vote related roles, especially townsided ones

Curtis @ 23/10/2023 13:31

What would you all do if it was like the following: 4 mafia 5 town, a townie gets lynched, game would usually be over but we’re doing the kill the threats rule etc 1 townie is a roleblocker and one is a redirector Mafia kills another townie, so it’s 4 mafia and 3 townies, two are RBer and redirector At that point it’s a playing with your food scenario a bit. Let’s say the RBer blocks a kill the next night and excitedly is like guess what everyone, I blocked xyz and there was no kill so they’re mafia. And they think they’re the man and everyone is like yay good job, and then scum dumps 4 votes on the roleblocker throughout the day instead of the person they blocked. Fun? Annoying? Cruel? I dunno! Are these scenarios too unlikely for this to even matter?

once the day starts and its 4 mafia to 3 town its definitely over regardless. mafia votes out one of the three townies in the game, lets say they vote out RB, then its 4-2, at night redirector causes mafia to kill themselves. next day still starts with 3-2, mafia votes out whoever, rinse and repeat

only thing to check here is if at the night of the 4-4, the redirector is able to cause a mafia to kill themselves, or if RB blocks a kill on that night and town has a way to break the deadlock in their favor. but like its been mentioned already this is all very role related

i guess the lesson from that is once the 50% of total is reached, let that night phase run its course. that removes a lot of the unknowns and the start of next day paints a clear picture abt whats gonna happen. or if the 50% of total is reached during the night then run one more day-night phase.

It's always been 51%

Grumpy Ass Old Woman @ 23/10/2023 17:24

It's always been 51%

No it hasn’t lol

I think it really depends on setup but yeah once mafia controls the days and cant get Killed by anything its over, it can get delayed but it cant be Prevented. Redirector makes it tricky

I do like this and think its the ideal way to phrase it:

Spin @ 23/10/2023 16:25

The wincon I use for when I mod games is the following: Mafia: Eliminate all threats to the Mafia and have 50% (or greater) of remaining players. This way, once all the threats are eliminated to prevent the voting majority from happening, it's game over. No need to play out the rest. You can define 'threats' however you want, based on the roles in play in that game.

I think it's also gonna depend on your setup too. Like in a more basic or medium level of complexity, i think mafia win when its a foregone conclusion is the best way to go. There's less complexities to navigate, less chance the game goes over, still opens up the chances of an interesting endgame or a final hail mary, especially if theres a SK or a usurper or something in play. Gives 3rd parties a stronger fighting chance if they can skirt the line.

But if its way more complicated of a setup where a lot of combos are possible, like a madness, 50% or >50% gives a much clearer objective and keeps it a bit fairer for mafia

Voting roles and Bombs are also gonna effect things, thats why i like voting majority better than Can Tie, but its really gonna depend on the setup i think

This is making me wonder, can we think of any other ways to do it than these?

drr - king hero of the town @ 23/10/2023 14:52

This is making me wonder, can we think of any other ways to do it than these?

game should end when Herminator dies. everyone loses. host included.

Curtis @ 23/10/2023 17:33

Grumpy Ass Old Woman @ 23/10/2023 17:24 It's always been 51% No it hasn’t lol

It has fir any games I hosted

Curtis @ 23/10/2023 15:31

What would you all do if it was like the following: 4 mafia 5 town, a townie gets lynched, game would usually be over but we’re doing the kill the threats rule etc 1 townie is a roleblocker and one is a redirector Mafia kills another townie, so it’s 4 mafia and 3 townies, two are RBer and redirector At that point it’s a playing with your food scenario a bit. Let’s say the RBer blocks a kill the next night and excitedly is like guess what everyone, I blocked xyz and there was no kill so they’re mafia. And they think they’re the man and everyone is like yay good job, and then scum dumps 4 votes on the roleblocker throughout the day instead of the person they blocked. Fun? Annoying? Cruel? I dunno! Are these scenarios too unlikely for this to even matter?

If it's 4 mafia and 3 town going into a day phase, then it's game over. Mafia control the vote.

If you wanted to play it out, Mafia lynch town that day, making it 4v2 going into night, and even if the redirector is still alive, and redirects mafia killer into mafia, it's still 3v2 after the night. Mafia lynch whomever they want the next day, making it 3v1, and in the rare case the redirector is still there (and has no restrictions on who they can redirect), it's at best 2v1 going into the last day, in which mafia still lynch the town member, and win. If the roleblocker lives, it's the same, just potentially without the kills of mafia, making the numbers for town even worse.

If it's 4v4 (or whatever number you want to use) going into a day phase, I always play it out, because you never know when one of the mafia will go AWOL and not be around to vote. I'm not going to reward a group/player for inactivity, ever.

Quote

You win when your faction secures half the numbers in play and any remaining threats have been eliminated.

This is how I view it, but I'm open to change it

i am a 50% truther

Spin @ 23/10/2023 19:57

If it's 4v4 (or whatever number you want to use) going into a day phase, I always play it out, because you never know when one of the mafia will go AWOL and not be around to vote. I'm not going to reward a group/player for inactivity, ever.

Idk, I’d hardly call that rewarding a group for inactivity. Sounds more like punishing a group for one player’s potential inactivity tbh

“If there are as many mafiosi as innocents in the day-phase then a mafia victory is declared immediately, under the original Mafia rules.”

The ‘by the book’ rules

I like the rule of thumb that the game ends if a day phase starts with 50%, that makes sense to me. If a night starts at 50% then maybe the town still has that final night to do something about it. If they fail to, and if the day starts at 50/50, then it ends

wasn't og mafia just 1 cop and the rest vanilla?