Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:56

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 13:46 Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:37 I had no idea who this guy was, so again stop putting words in my mouth. By proof i mean police reports or multiple accounts of it happening to others. His gf should have wemt to the police, plain and simple. I'm not trying to shame victims. Igor- how often have you gone to the police for anything? Do you trust the police enough to go to them? I'm absolutely serious in these questions, because I've had terrible experiences dealing with the police on simple issues. Stuff like "Just got to the police" or "Just obey whatever the officer says" doesn't always work out very well in your favor, and sometimes makes things worse. Honestly if I was raped I'd trust the police, but again I'm not a woman so my perspective is different. For the most part if I'm a victim of a crime I trust the cops in my area.

Would you like me to provide real life examples from my own life, despite them being "anecdotal", where the police have been less-than helpful and often abusive? And I'm a white male. If you've always had pleasant experiences with police, then I'm glad for you. But a lot of other people have not had that experience.

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 13:48

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:46 Dude ur an idiot. Im not defending Weinstein. Hes obvi guilty, not once in this thread did I say he was innocent. How do you know he's guilty? Again- I'm curious where your "standard" is, because it sounds to me like you are worried about false accusations. So you accept the accusations about Weinstein but I'm "stupid" if I do the same for somebody else because you are afraid of "false accusations". Again- I'm trying to see where you draw the line, because it's definitely not clear to me how I can be "smart" like you.

Multiple accounts from victims.
Rumors that hes a sleezeball
Thia is what a consider evidence
If someone came to me and said they were assaulted I'd tend to believe them.
But in high prodile cases there is financial incentive for deception
In lower profile cases the incentive can be revenge etc.
you downplaying that false accusations happen is wrong

Beo i know cops can be pigs, seen plenty of friends get fucked over.
Dont need u to lecture me old man

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:56

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 13:46 Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:37 I had no idea who this guy was, so again stop putting words in my mouth. By proof i mean police reports or multiple accounts of it happening to others. His gf should have wemt to the police, plain and simple. I'm not trying to shame victims. Igor- how often have you gone to the police for anything? Do you trust the police enough to go to them? I'm absolutely serious in these questions, because I've had terrible experiences dealing with the police on simple issues. Stuff like "Just got to the police" or "Just obey whatever the officer says" doesn't always work out very well in your favor, and sometimes makes things worse. Honestly if I was raped I'd trust the police, but again I'm not a woman so my perspective is different. For the most part if I'm a victim of a crime I trust the cops in my area.

story time!

so i did a participant-observation study in east oakland one summer and it was rather eye opening. i remember the time one of my roommates had the back window of his car shot out (while he was getting out of it, mind you). called the cops, called them again, they showed up the following day in force with a photographer. jotted down some info, took some photographs, and chuckled when we asked what they were going to do about it. they were there and gone in about four minutes.

moral of the story -- in many jurisdictions, cops are basically journalists who go around collecting data so they can beg for more money. protect and serve is a bit of a joke unless there's an actual body count.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:53

@Nofo Then go to your supervisor or whoever is in charge if its something like that

You'd be amazed at how little that does unless you have access to definite proof and somebody at the top who will take care of things. Otherwise, like you said earlier, it's "his word against yours". So the victims tack up until someone finally speaks, then the floodgates open. And all those other people get asked "If it happened to you, why didn't you say anything? You just want money now. It's all a frame up!"

There are very good reasons this shit stays underground for too long.

I mean Kevin Spacey has multiple accusers now

Curtis @ 1/11/2017 14:03

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 14:03

Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:53 @Nofo Then go to your supervisor or whoever is in charge if its something like that You'd be amazed at how little that does unless you have access to definite proof and somebody at the top who will take care of things. Otherwise, like you said earlier, it's "his word against yours". So the victims tack up until someone finally speaks, then the floodgates open. And all those other people get asked "If it happened to you, why didn't you say anything? You just want money now. It's all a frame up!" There are very good reasons this shit stays underground for too long.

What do you purpose is the solution? Honest question.
So far everyone in thia thread has pretty much solid everything is pointless (going to cops, supervisor, etc)

Nofo @ 1/11/2017 14:05

I mean Kevin Spacey has multiple accusers now

I've said multiple times that he is likely guilty.

Teach men not to rape.

Edge @ 1/11/2017 14:09

Teach men not to rape.

Men get raped too you sexist

Edge @ 1/11/2017 15:09

Teach men not to rape.

I know not to rape, don't know what class Brock Turner failed

Igor @ 1/11/2017 15:12

Men get raped too you sexist

He did not say that.

Igor @ 1/11/2017 14:00

vladykins @ 1/11/2017 13:48 Igor @ 1/11/2017 13:46 Dude ur an idiot. Im not defending Weinstein. Hes obvi guilty, not once in this thread did I say he was innocent. How do you know he's guilty? Again- I'm curious where your "standard" is, because it sounds to me like you are worried about false accusations. So you accept the accusations about Weinstein but I'm "stupid" if I do the same for somebody else because you are afraid of "false accusations". Again- I'm trying to see where you draw the line, because it's definitely not clear to me how I can be "smart" like you. Multiple accounts from victims. Rumors that hes a sleezeball Thia is what a consider evidence If someone came to me and said they were assaulted I'd tend to believe them. But in high prodile cases there is financial incentive for deception In lower profile cases the incentive can be revenge etc. you downplaying that false accusations happen is wrong

What I am saying is false accusations compared to letting things go is a balance. For far too long, the balance has been letting things go, while the victims stack up more and more. How many other lives need to be ruined by a person before we decide to do something? How about we try shifting the balance a little because if there are 1 million rapes to every false accusation,* do you focus on the one false accusation? When you do, you encourage the status quo or, worse, you encourage the balance to shift even more. And then when a big case blows, you have all these people asking "Why didn't someone do something earlier?" It comes down to that balance is tilted so far away that you will be treated as a false accuser up to somebody being convicted, and even then there will be people who still don't believe you.

So when someone says Michael Jackson diddled a little boy, and a few other people discuss the questionable shit they've seen about him, and someone who is buddies with him says "Well, he didn't do anything with me but he did enough stuff that makes me question?" knowing full well that many children molested block shit out or, in the case of same sex molestation, are afraid to admit to anyone, including themselves, that they were molested, and that the "facts" that come out of the case is that MJ spent a lot of time in bed with little boys playing, I'm going to let that balance a little and say that he probably diddled at least one boy and probably multiples. There is no hard proof and until a Culkin or Feldman comes forward and says "yep, he did it" knowing full well that everyone will bitch and say "You are just doing it for attention now" and "Why didn't you say stuff earlier?" and the like.



*- Statistic unknown and used for example purposes.